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PLEASE HELP


 
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acer34
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Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 5
Location: anglesey,wales

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 23:38    Post subject: PLEASE HELP Reply with quote

I have a 2000 reg 3.0 trooper with a manual gearbox that will not start off the key. I am really confused as the car starts from a tow and runs and drives great
but as soon as i turn off the engine it will not start again unless towed. please please help
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Gribble
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Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 8448
Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 19:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi , does it spin over when you turn the key but just wont catch ?
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acer34
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Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 5
Location: anglesey,wales

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 21:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi, the starter spins and turns the engine over but the engine makes no effort to fire no smoke,no cough nothing. The trooper will start from a tow or a hill start
at less than 5mph. I will be thankful of any help as i do not know this engine.
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Starglider
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Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 7
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 23:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like an electrical problem, e.g. ignition working at normal voltage but not when the starter motor is drawing 100s of amps and causing voltage droop. Did you try swapping the battery with a known good one? I'd also check the earthing.
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Gribble
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Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 8448
Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 0:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well  have to say  Stargliders posted what I would so fair play to him ! tired batteries would seem a possible does it go with a jump start ?

A 3.0 will pull 350 + amps at the starter when cranking so they do need a good wind over  .

There are some other causes so try another battery or a jump start and come back .
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acer34
Newbie


Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 5
Location: anglesey,wales

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 0:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just checked the battery and its 420amp 50ah battery. I have tryed to jump start from a mondeo tdci. I will pick up a new bigger battery and let you know the result.
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acer34
Newbie


Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 5
Location: anglesey,wales

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 0:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi i have put a 90 amp 700cca in the car and it still wont start. I am ment to be taking this car to ireland soon so really need to get it fixed. I really need help.
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Gribble
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Joined: 11 Oct 2007
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Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah it looked like it started from the mondo from your post .Well how far do you need to tow it before  it fires up and is there any smoke or noises when it does ? Please don't say not far lol is it 5 foot or further and what gear do you use ?

When you go for a key start you have the lights on at ign on and the glow plug light that goes out and then it just winds over with no sign of trying to fire up is that right ?

The more info you put up the more chance or somebody remembering something !
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acer34
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Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 5
Location: anglesey,wales

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 23:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

I roll the down a hill (not steep) till it gets to about 5 mph and pop the clutch in 2nd gear and the trooper starts in 1-1.5 turns of the engine, no smoke or strange noises.

When the ing is on the oil,battery,handbrake,4wd,check engine and glow plug lights come on, the glow plug goes off after a few seconds, also with the ing on the blue charge relay buzzes (did this before breaking down) and the heater blower does not work (only since breaking down).

When i turn the key as if to start the car the check engine light goes off, rest of the lights stay on, the buzzing stops and the heater blower starts working.
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Browndoff
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Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 18:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's beginning to sound like a fault in the Ignition-Switch!

"heater blower starts working"      NOTHING but the starter-motor should work when the key is turned 'against the spring'. If anything else - like your heater-fan - comes ON at that time - then a short-circuit exists there somewhere.

"the blue charger-relay buzzes"     This, too, would indicate a short-circuit.

Has the Ignition-Switch got damp? Any physical damage to the key-switch? Excessive 'looseness' in turning the key? Try to remember what has 'changed' recently to make it go from 'working' to NOT working...........?
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2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
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Gribble
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Joined: 11 Oct 2007
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Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 19:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite right Mr B ,  the engine spins over , the alt starts to charge, the L terminal volts rise, changeover occurs  in blue relay (7 volts will do it ) so the  buzzing stops (probably one of andy poldhams alts with the odd  tiddly wink made rectifier pack in ) and enables the fan relay - switch the fan off and see if that stops it ?

So if its going after a short bump there is no starting problem as such but whats occuring is that the ECU is not seeing a signal it needs for start up or the starter has gone tight or lazy which I think is going to be the case .

Does it wind over at a fair speed on the key ? or is it a r-rr-r-rr-r type of thing ? Normally a 3.0 wants 180/200 rpm to fire up when cranking ,really wants a T2 plugging in to see the cranking speed . Does anything smell warm under the bonnet after trying a key start ?

Could you measure the block to battery - resistance ?

Also do you have the black ring  (immob aerial) round the outside of the ignition barrel  where the key goes in still in place ?
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Browndoff
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Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 22:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you have me worried, Mr. G! I had thought I understood this vital circuit. I went back to the PDF Manual and could NOT find a diagram showing the ignition-switch itself - just a few circuits which get their power from it.

I'd really like to get it RIGHT - so I'd be obliged if you could indicate where one might find info on the circuits powered-up at specific turning-points of the KEY.

I had found a TEXT reference which seemed to back up what I had written - but further searching showed a diagram [at 6D-6] which implied the OPPOSITE - i.e. that at the START position EVERYTHING was powered up except the things powered by the ACCESSORIES line [like the radio etc.].

HELP!!
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2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
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Gribble
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Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 8448
Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 23:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you have me worried, Mr. G  

A Hamlet moment possibly Mr B ?
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Gribble
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Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 8448
Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 0:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway before HE sees this  Smile  The line drawings are not 100% as to how the cars are wired its assumed /allowed that you will have good working knowledge of Japanese style  Automotive wiring.

The only way to be sure is to do continuity checks on individual wires  so in the case of the 3.0 the blue charge/changeover relay is not wired the same as on a 3.1
but its the same style 5 pin changeover  relay but with a different setting i.e N/C to N/O .

Now as for what comes live from the key  at every position on every 3.0/3.1  model - I dont know  Smile

But if you look at the drawing on page 8D-32 it shows a B1 and B2 which are fed in parallel indicating dual contact sets and termed ign 1 and ign 2

Now look at page 6D-6  in 4jx1 Engine Electrical .  Idea  Arrow  Question
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TrooperSimon
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Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Posts: 699
Location: Costa Del Doncaster

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

think them two are going barking mad

When you are cranking it over does the oil pressure gauge go up

when did you last change the oil and was it 5 30 fully syn

I would say glow plugs but then after the tow start I would expect abit of smoke

had one once with blocked fuel lines that only started on the tow

stand at the passenger wing take the right hose off the primer filter unit pump it and see if you have a good diesel supply

should be loads squirt out with one press

cheers

simon
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