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3.0L Trooper wont start Tech 2 says no RPM??

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SupaTrupa
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Joined: 29 Jan 2015
Posts: 26
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eithan and Gribble you were both right Smile If only we knew what the timing ring looked like a few days ago we could have saved ourselves some time and headaches! Dad looked at an old flywheel and found the timing ring on it, we marked it and took it and put it on our flywheel. Cranked the engine and with some easy start it started firing, heated it a couple more times before cranking and she bursted into life! Problem solved!

We are delighted. Thank you both for your help and for sticking with me through all the long posts I put up. I didn't know what the timing ring looked like and Dad says he must have left it off when he had the flywheel on the 3.1 engine and forgot what it was and where it was. Both of you's have saved us a whole load more routing that we could of had to go through. Can't thank ye enough. Will be going down 2moro to put everything back the way it should be. Cheers Gribble and Eithan Smile
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

No probs and it helps us when you post up lots of information about what you have done and tried, those were excellent informative posts which resulted in a quick fix thumbup
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SupaTrupa
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 15:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks eithan thumbleft. There is something I would like to follow up on and get right if possible. I forget to mention it last night. I have some questions. I am really curious as to why at first there were no Flash Codes and then after some more actions taken the DTC number 43 showed up and why it disappeared after changing the crank shaft position sensor only. We still had not got the timing ring on and when I jumped terminals 4 and 6 #43 was gone. Strangely enough I also got 3 or 4 new codes at that time which instead were to the best of my knowledge #36 High Oil Temp Warning ON, #63 Rail Pressure Sensor Low Voltage ON / Rail Pressure Sensor High Voltage ON, #64 RPCV Circuit Open / Short -, and I think there may have been #31 also which is EGR VSV Circuit- but I'm not sure. I had got all these Flash Code Descriptions from a post on this forum back a year ago or more which I printed off.

On that print off #43 is Crank Position Sensor Out Of Syncro ON / Crank Position Sensor No Signal ON. I could not get Code #41 when I unplugged the cam sensor plug on top of the timing belt cover when I cranked the engine over. Any suggestions as to why this was happening?? Question

I would like to know are these Flash Codes completely accurate and reliable or is the Tech 2 the only real proven accurate test?? Question  

Why did the mechanic with tech 2 not say anything about crank sensor DTC #43 ?? Is the Flash Code Description list I printed off this forum accurate??  Question

It seems kind of tricky to read more than one Flash Code. From what I remember at the moment the CHECK ENGINE light flashes once when ignition is turned on while terminals 4 and 6 are joined then theres a slight pause before it flashes again and keeps flashing a number of times before the second pause which I believe gives you the first number of the DTC by counting the number of flashes in between each of the pause's. Then after that pause it flashes again another number of times before another pause which by counting the number of flashes between each of those pauses gives you the second number of the DTC. At this stage you then put the first number of flashes you counted beside the second number of flashes you counted and that is the first DTC it shows up which is a 2 digit number.
It then repeats that Code a number of times before it displays any other DTC'S. If there are more than one DTC 's to display there is another pause after a few repeats of the first DTC and I think it gives one flash before displaying the next DTC but I can't be completely sure if thats correct as I think at one point it showed 2 different 2 digit codes without the single flash between them, only the short pause.  That is just my understanding of it.

I have seen a few explanations before on how to read the codes but I was never really sure if every little detail on the flash code sequence was explained fully. So I'm still not fully sure if I am reading the codes right. Am I doing it right and are they reliable??
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 21:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't know why it doesn't always put them in and i can't ever remember seeing a cam fault code even when i've had them out of sync or when the plug gets an issue and it loses it's feed,

it will flash each fault code 3 times and if there is more than one fault code in the memory it will start with the lowest numbered one first so if you are playing with plugs the order it displays them in can change to when you last checked it so it can get confusing.

the tech should of noticed the lack of crank signal even without a fault code there so to be honest i'd find another tech to look at it!! and yes the list is correct.

tech2 is pretty much the only scanner that will give an accurate readout of the sensors and any fault codes as other scanners seem to lose something in the translation and people pull out c class codes for the engine which isn't right!
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SupaTrupa
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Joined: 29 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 23:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking the mechanic could have given more info! I stumbled across another DTC description list in this forum recently and I'm wondering if it has any relation to our 3.0l trooper.

The engine we fitted has F written on the MAP sensor in white tippex paint which I presume means Fu*k*d / Faulty and the DTC code #36 which came up seems to be linked to that list I viewed recently.
DTC #31 which I thought I got also seems to me it might possibly be linked to RPM ?  The problem is my printed of list doesn't describe the codes the same. Here is a copy of the post with the list I found recently on here:

"Not wanting to tread on the bigger members feet but most Isuzu specific codes will be for older stuff and petrols .
Faults /DTC's on the 3.0 are same as other HUEI engines and the oil pressure sensor will only have a in/out of volts default not a pressure not there one .

Older Isuzu codes , these are flash format .

Isuzu Trouble codes
12 No tach signal to ECM - No Distributor Reference Pulses{4}
13 Oxygen sensor or circuit
14
Coolant Temperature Sensor Circuit

High Coolant Temperature{5}

14A
High Coolant Temperature{6}

14B
Low Coolant Temperature{6}

15
Coolant Temperature Sensor Circuit

Low Coolant Temperature{5}{7}

16 Same as 15
21
TP Sensor And/Or Idle Switch

MAP Sensor{1}

TP Sensor, Voltage High{5}{7}

Throttle valve switch/Wide Open Throttle (WOT) position sensor, 1989 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) circuit failure
Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) - V6 models
21A
TP Sensor, Voltage High{6}

21B
TP Sensor, Voltage Low{6}

22 Starter signal system/1988 and 1989 fuel cut solenoid circuit failure
TP Sensor

TP Sensor, Voltage Low{5}{7}

No Starter Signal{8}

Fuel Cut Off Relay{4}

23
MAT Sensor

MAT Sensor, Low Temp{7}

M/C Solenoid Circuit{4}

Mixture control solenoid circuit failure - 1987 and 1995 Amigo/Pick-up, 1989 to 1994 V6 models

Power transistor circuit - 1988 to 1994 four-cylinder models

Intake Air Temperature sensor voltage high - turbo, 1989 to 1995 1.6L, 1.8L, 3.2L vehicles
23A
MAT Sensor, Low Temp{6}

23B
MAT Sensor, High Temp{6}

24 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) circuit - V6 models
Pressure regulator vacuum switching valve - 1988 to 1994 four-cylinder, also Impulse non-turbo
25
MAT Sensor

Vacuum Switching Valve{4}{9}

MAT Sensor, High Temp{7}

Intake Air Temperature sensor voltage high - turbo, 1989 to 1995 1.6L, 1.8L, 3.2L vehicles
AIR VSV circuit failure
26
Canister Vacuum Switching Valve{4}

VSV System{9}

27
VSV System{9}

Constant Voltage High From VSV To ECM{4}

Fuel injector driver transistor
31
No Ignition Reference Pulses To ECM{4}

Wastegate Control{7}{8}

No ignition reference to ECM - 1988 and 1989 models
32 Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system failure
33
MAP Sensor

MAP Sensor, Voltage High{5}{7}

Fuel Injector{9}

33A
MAP Sensor, Voltage High–Low{6}

33B
MAP Sensor, Voltage Low–High{6}

34
MAP Sensor{8}{11}

MAP Sensor, Voltage Low{5}

EGR Gas Sensor Circuit{4}{7}

Fuel Injector{10}

35
MAP Sensor Constant Voltage High{4}

Power Transistor System{9}

36
MAP Sensor Circuit{4}

41
Crank Angle Sensor{9}

Cam Signal{7}

42
Fuel Cut Off Relay{4}

Electronic Spark Timing{5}

Ignition Control Circuit{6}{8}

43 Throttle valve switch/Wide Open Throttle (WOT) position sensor {9}  
Electronic spark control failure - V6 models
Idle contact switch always closed (1988 to 1994 four-cylinder, also Impulse non-turbo)
1989 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) circuit failure
Knock sensor (1989 to 1995 1.6L, 3.2L) {8}  
44
O2S Lean

Fuel Metering{9}

45
Oxygen sensor (rich condition indicated)

Fuel Metering{9}

51
PROM{2}{8}

Fuel Cut Solenoid Circuit And/Or ECM{3} carbureted four-cylinder models

ECM{6}

MEM-CAL{7}

PROM, Cal-Park & ECM{5}

ROM and/or RAM{9}

52
ECM{4}

EEPROM{8}

ROM and/or RAM{9}

PROM, Cal-Park & ECM{5}

53
Switching Valve And/Or ECM{4}

Vacuum Switching Valve{9}

54
M/C (mixture control) Solenoid Circuit And/Or ECM{2}

Vacuum Control Solenoid And/Or ECM{3}

Power Transistor System{9}

Fuel Pump, Voltage Low{5}{8}

Shorted vacuum control solenoid, Faulty Electronic Control Module (ECM) - 1988 and 1989 models
55
ECM{4}{8}

PROM, Cal-Park & ECM{5}

Faulty Electronic Control Module (ECM) or oxygen sensor
61 Air flow sensor circuit failure {9}
62 Air flow sensor circuit failure {9}
63 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) circuit {9}
64 Fuel injector driver transistor {9}
65
Throttle valve switch/Wide Open Throttle (WOT) position sensor, 1989 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) circuit failure  
Full throttle switch always on

66 Knock sensor circuit failure {9}
71 Throttle position switch signal abnormal {9}  
72 VSV for EGR system short or open {9}  
73 Same as 72 transister or ground {9}  

{1}—1989 I-Mark.
{2}—I-Mark, carbureted.
{3}—Pickup, carbureted. {4}—Carbureted models.
{5}—Throttle body fuel injection. {6}—Rodeo & Trooper w/3.2L engine, Stylus & 1990–92 Impulse less turbocharger.
{7}—Stylus & 1990–92 Impulse w/turbocharger. {8}—I-Mark, multi-port fuel injection.
{9}—Amigo, Pickup, Rodeo & Trooper w/2.6L engine & 1988–91 Impulse. {10}—Impulse.
{11}—Amigo, Pickup, Rodeo & Trooper.

How and ever, the engine we fitted has exited the garage on 4 new rubber boots, happy days, but would like to make sure it's set up for running as best as it possibly can if it proves to be a good engine as it will have a lot of heavy towing work to do.  Does this code description list relate to me at all?
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 0:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christ that's an old list!
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 0:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is a list of dtc's for the 3.0 and their flash codes no.s





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SupaTrupa
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Joined: 29 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 21:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Eithan! Wasn't sure if it was of any benefit to me! Your list seems to be the same as my first print off list so I'l stick to that. What should I do about the codes I recorded from the Flash test? They were DTC 36, DTC 63, DTC 64. Are these problems serious, will they cause trouble in the future?
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