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3.0td 52 plate slow starting


 
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Taido
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Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 24
Location: Abergele

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 0:32    Post subject: 3.0td 52 plate slow starting Reply with quote

Hello Gents!
Hope you can help with a starting problem that's developed on my 52 plate trooper commercial.
Having now covered 176k, she's become really sluggish to start in the morning, sometimes requiring 4 or 5 goes at cranking to start from cold and seems to turn over a lot slower than before. Had the batteries checked and they appear to be ok.
Once started the engine runs sweet enough all day and will restart after 2/3 seconds every time.
Had new oil and filters every 4500 for years now and again two weeks ago so don't think that's the problem.
Went to our local dealer Threeways to enquire about a non return valve kit for the return fuel line but was met with extremely blank looks and no assistance (other than offering to change the Orps for about 300 plus VAT )so I  clamped off the return fuel line overnight but that didn't seem to make much difference ?
I'm cranking for 5 or 6 seconds at a time so as not to cook the starter but have read in previous posts that cranking for longer may be required? On the odd occasion I have done so, the cranking speed seems to increase after about 10 seconds?
So this morning I pumped the primer a few times and noticed the boot to the centre plug on the ECU was split and when I peeled it back, a broken black wire appeared Shocked
(Can't figure out how to post the photo, sorry!!)
Could this be related to the starting problem?

Any assistance greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!!
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 0:32    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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Gribble
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Joined: 11 Oct 2007
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Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 8:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

You say the batteries 'seem' to be ok how were they checked as its pointing towards a duff battery ?

Not sure on the black wire will have to get the chart up later  Confused
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Taido
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Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 24
Location: Abergele

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 12:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your quick reply Gribble!

Took it to the local battery suppliers, Manbat, who checked them both with some electronic device and they said they were ok?
Then took it to Universal auto electrics in llandudno who checked them again static and while cranking and he said they were ok too. He did give a cranking value which was 11. Something from memory? He did say that the starter sounded lazy, which I'd agree with.

Don't know if something is draining the battery overnight?

The heater circuit fuse under the bonnet had blown a couple of weeks ago and I've changed that. It's remained intact since.

turned it over twice today and it fired second time after 12 seconds of cranking, but I don't want to destroy the starter really!!

Thanks again for your help!
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Gribble
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Joined: 11 Oct 2007
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Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 16:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah , you need to test the glow plugs if the fuse went as it will start on 2 working plugs from cold  but not easily .

My opinion is that those testers that work by calculating the internal resistance are not worth a cup of cold tea,the ones that load a battery up with a big resistance are the best as that simulates a starting load.
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eithan h
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Joined: 11 Dec 2005
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Location: oxfordish

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 19:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

with reference to the black wire have you had the throttle recall done? if so you will have an extra thin wiring loom going in to the middle plug on the ecu and they cut a wire and add another connector in there so you may well have found the other cut end.
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Taido
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Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 24
Location: Abergele

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 22:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for not replying sooner, been a bit busy!
Thanks for your replies.
Don't know about the tester Gribble, it took about 30 seconds to test I suppose?
Would have been the easiest thing in the world to tell me one or other was U/S and sell me replacements so I kind of respected that!!
I've read the correct required battery values somewhere in another post but can't recall them?
Wouldn't know how to test the heater plugs? Any advice would be appreciated! I guess the fact that the replacement fuse is still intact tells me very little as they could have gone faulty taking the fuse out?
Pretty sure it's had all the recalls done eithan, I've been the proud, if occasionally frustrated, owner since 2006 and had various discussions with IM regarding a replacement short engine and 3 sets of injectors, all under warranty to be fair!
So the new loom had a spare black wire? I've been a bit reluctant to take the plug off and check for a corresponding broken short length of black wire in the connector plug for fear of creating an issue with the ECU?
Going to check the starter connections and earth tomorrow when I get a second?
Should I fit the non return valve in case it's a fuel issue?

Thanks again for your valuable assistance!!! 'Tis an invaluable service you provide! Very Happy
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Taido
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Joined: 11 May 2015
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Location: Abergele

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 10:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again gentlemen,

So it looks like it was the starter, gone to start it this morning and a faint whirring and then a vague click.
Then put jump leads on it from the wife's cad in case it was the battery with the same result.

So I've been under and had a look to change it and it seems like it's pretty difficult to remove as it's behind the oil filler tube?

Any advice on the best way to do it as I can't see how to get at the connections on the solenoid?

Thanks in advance!!
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Browndoff
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Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 17:03    Post subject: Pre-Heater Plugs Reply with quote

The heater-plugs can be reliably tested with a simple multi-meter. Just remove the covers to expose the electrical-connectors at the top-end and then take off the copper bus-bar live connector [gently!]. Make a good earth with one end of the meter and test resistance to the top of each heater-plug in turn. If any shows a 'short' - it's dead!

Without all four working, there will be some smoke from unburnt fuel at startup and a longer turn-over required to achieve a start. I got some heater-plugs very cheaply through a contact in Oz - so it CAN be done!

Removing the 'dead bodies' can be a pain - but I was lucky and [very, very gently!] unscrewed all four dead plugs and replaced them without any problem.

I hope you are lucky and don't have to do the starter-motor - as I will have to do soon on my own Trooper!
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2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
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Taido
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Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 24
Location: Abergele

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 22:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that Browndoff!

The starter motor just died in the end before I got around to checking the plugs.

Your concerns over its removal are well founded...what a job for someone doing it for the first time. it's just a pig to but having done it once now, it would be easier next time, maybe with less profanity too! Would have been much easier as a two man job.

Removing the oil filler tube gives you just enough wriggle room to get it in and out, and three 12" extensions linked together got me to the seemingly inaccessible nut that's over the gearbox.

It was a hitachi starter so I'm guessing it's the original? Took it to universal autos in Llandudno, and had it refurbished for £64 plus Vat. Bargain!!

The difference is amazing. The engine now spins over much much quicker and fires pretty much straight away which I guess is because it builds the oil pressure quicker.

Just got to resolve a nagging oil drip now which could be the base of the oil filler tube. A new gasket is only 3 quid but isn't available for weeks or maybe months according to Threeways, our local dealer Shocked

Have to sort it out though so I guess it may have to be easy gasket?

Also broke the breather of the EVCV bolted to the side of the block and after finding out a replacement was £100, decided to fashion a repair with a chainsaw fuel filter gauze after a soothing word from Eithan! Connecting all the vac tubes is good fun too.

So. Almost sorted, but I will check the heater plugs this week anyway.

Thanks again for your help!!
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