4x4 & MPV Driver - 40% subscription discount

Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™
Isuzu Trooper, Rodeo, Bighorn, Mu & VehiCROSS Owners Club
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   Watched TopicsWatched Topics   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your personal messagesLog in to check your personal messages   Log inLog in 
CalendarCalendar  ITOCUK Club ShopClub Shop  ITOCUK Classified Ads serviceClassified Ads
ITOCUK HomeITOCUK Home   dynamic online chat serviceChatrooms  Yellow Diamond ClubsYellow Diamond Clubs

Possible damaged starter-ring....?


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™ Forum Index -> Starting issues
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Browndoff
*****


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 17:24    Post subject: Possible damaged starter-ring....? Reply with quote

Hi - my engine starts first time every time - i.e. there's no engine fault - but there IS a problem with the starter! It sometimes makes a nasty grinding noise [first time], then it can be started with no fuss [SECOND time]. Sometimes it begins to turn smoothly and then grinds a bit before the engine starts normally. I had the Trooper for over a year before this problem began [86 000 miles] - so why now? I thought it took some serious abuse to damage a starter-ring....?

Do I now have to remove gear-box and clutch to replace the ring? Is there any 'hope' that it's just the starter-motor?
_________________
2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Google
Sponsor





PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 17:24    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


Back to top
Gribble
*******


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 8448
Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 18:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah Mr B nice to see you again . Its most likely the overrun clutch in the starter at fault they go dry and make noises.
_________________
2 New Troopers !
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Browndoff
*****


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 18:15    Post subject: Starter-motor 'innards' Reply with quote

Hi Gribble - thanks for the reply!

Your description fits the symptoms very well - but I've never heard of this internal part in the starter before. I thought it just had a centrifugal sleeve which flew out to join the pinion to the  starter-ring - or are we talking about the same thing?

If so, how do I fix the beastie? Is this a regular maintenance task I have neglected? Do I have to remove the starter first? From where it's located, that seems like a dreadful job!
_________________
2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Gribble
*******


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 8448
Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 18:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its new part I'm afraid to say to fix it or a used starter .

Its a roller and slope type clutch that lets  the engine fire and spin the starter pinion without damaging the electric motor bit. Bit number 22.


_________________
2 New Troopers !
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Browndoff
*****


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 16:21    Post subject: Starter replacement Reply with quote

Thanks again. I'll get a replacement to 'stand by' while I remove the original - that'll have to wait until I can arrange time with a maintenance-pit. I'll report back then, so others can benefit from reading about it.
_________________
2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Browndoff
*****


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 15:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK - the Saga is not yet completed but I HAVE removed the starter [or, rather, my sainted nephew has!] and I have stripped it down for cleaning.
[img][/img]
Imaging my delight when I found that it all looks brand new!! Of course, I had to clean off a lot of carbon dust etc. but beneath that there was very little wear on the brushes or gear-teeth. I also inspected the Starter-Ring [through the hatch on the bell-housing] and it, too, seemed OK.

Once again, Mr. Gribble seems to have diagnosed correctly - the Solenoid-Clutch must be at fault. Now, how much will THAT cost me.....?
_________________
2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Gribble
*******


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 8448
Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 19:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'd say not a lot as there will be plenty on the net and seems they can swop from 3.1's too .
_________________
2 New Troopers !
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Browndoff
*****


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now it gets messy! I brought my nicely cleaned-up starter-motor down to the auto-elec specialists and they tested it - 30 times - and it popped-out the pinion and ran like a good 'un!

Since the nasty grinding-noise had been occurring only intermittently anyway - am I now left with no choice but to re-assemble the motor into the car and HOPE it works well??? That's the common dilemma with any intermittent fault, I suppose - it doesn't have to show up on testing!

I'm going to try again to inspect the starter-ring - now that the 'missing' starter-motor will give me better access to that. Of course, if that [once more] seems perfect, then I'll be back to the same dodgy choice of fitting a starter-motor which is UNCHANGED [apart from a little internal cleaning].

Any suggestion?
_________________
2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Gribble
*******


Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 8448
Location: Holset H221W

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 19:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - the clutch will only slip under load so whizzing the starter up on the bench won't show much .

Remember a 4 cylinder engine stops in one of four same spots so make sure you do at least 360 rotation check
_________________
2 New Troopers !
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Browndoff
*****


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 0:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, of course a 360° turn is needed. To this end, I sprayed a spot of white paint on the ring-gear and cranked it around [using the 24mm nut on the crank-shaft pulley] until the spot came around again. Quite honestly, there seemed very little wear on the teeth of the ring.

Re-installing the starter was easy enough, though I had to replace the 2 flanged 17mm nuts - they had been rounded off before I got at them! Annoyingly, the solenoid-lead came off during re-assembly - though I was sure I had tightened it! Getting the heater-pipes and the vacuum-tubes re-connected to their appropriate places cost some skinned knuckles but was very straightforward. Re-securing the oil-filler tube was a pain [and I lost one of the 12mm flanged nuts behind the low-pressure oil-pipe!].

All that and I still have to worry about the clutch!

Even though all the gears on the outside looked 'as new', there might still be some fault within the clutch-assembly....... Tomorrow I'll restart my lovely Trooper and hope it continues to behave itself for long enough to justify all the hassle!
_________________
2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Browndoff
*****


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 21:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. G was right again - the clutch IS faulty - that's the unit 2nd from left in the strip-down picture, with the gear-ring on its outside.

As soon as I turned the key after final assembly, it made the same nasty crunching-noise as before I started! Although the visible gears and the bearings inside the starter-motor, looked brand new, there IS some fault inside that cylindrical unit. I did not see any clip or other obvious way to strip it down any further - but it's NOT solid - so somebody had to assemble it. How can I open it up?

Maybe the retainers are hidden behind the bearings attached to the clutch....? Do I just prise off the bearings with a screw-driver or a wedge? If something is broken inside, can I get replacement components? It would seem a REAL shame to have to replace the whole starter when the motor seems perfect!
_________________
2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
d12
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 1214
Location: dublin ireland

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 23:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a 3.0 starter motor on adverts ! €50 in Athlone 👍
_________________
96 3.1 bighorn lwb ,widetrack
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Browndoff
*****


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 513
Location: Dublin 13, Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Pal! I actually saw that ad - but Athlone is a LONG way away! I could hardly return it if it failed too!
_________________
2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™ Forum Index -> Starting issues All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


All contents © Hobson's Choice IT Solutions Ltd 1997 on
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group