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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 17:24 Post subject: Possible damaged starter-ring....? |
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Hi - my engine starts first time every time - i.e. there's no engine fault - but there IS a problem with the starter! It sometimes makes a nasty grinding noise [first time], then it can be started with no fuss [SECOND time]. Sometimes it begins to turn smoothly and then grinds a bit before the engine starts normally. I had the Trooper for over a year before this problem began [86 000 miles] - so why now? I thought it took some serious abuse to damage a starter-ring....?
Do I now have to remove gear-box and clutch to replace the ring? Is there any 'hope' that it's just the starter-motor? _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 17:24 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
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Gribble *******
Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Posts: 8448 Location: Holset H221W
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 18:00 Post subject: |
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Ah Mr B nice to see you again . Its most likely the overrun clutch in the starter at fault they go dry and make noises. _________________ 2 New Troopers ! |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 18:15 Post subject: Starter-motor 'innards' |
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Hi Gribble - thanks for the reply!
Your description fits the symptoms very well - but I've never heard of this internal part in the starter before. I thought it just had a centrifugal sleeve which flew out to join the pinion to the starter-ring - or are we talking about the same thing?
If so, how do I fix the beastie? Is this a regular maintenance task I have neglected? Do I have to remove the starter first? From where it's located, that seems like a dreadful job! _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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Gribble *******
Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Posts: 8448 Location: Holset H221W
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 18:30 Post subject: |
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Its new part I'm afraid to say to fix it or a used starter .
Its a roller and slope type clutch that lets the engine fire and spin the starter pinion without damaging the electric motor bit. Bit number 22.
_________________ 2 New Troopers ! |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 16:21 Post subject: Starter replacement |
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Thanks again. I'll get a replacement to 'stand by' while I remove the original - that'll have to wait until I can arrange time with a maintenance-pit. I'll report back then, so others can benefit from reading about it. _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 15:57 Post subject: |
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OK - the Saga is not yet completed but I HAVE removed the starter [or, rather, my sainted nephew has!] and I have stripped it down for cleaning.
[img][/img]
Imaging my delight when I found that it all looks brand new!! Of course, I had to clean off a lot of carbon dust etc. but beneath that there was very little wear on the brushes or gear-teeth. I also inspected the Starter-Ring [through the hatch on the bell-housing] and it, too, seemed OK.
Once again, Mr. Gribble seems to have diagnosed correctly - the Solenoid-Clutch must be at fault. Now, how much will THAT cost me.....? _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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Gribble *******
Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Posts: 8448 Location: Holset H221W
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 19:33 Post subject: |
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Well I'd say not a lot as there will be plenty on the net and seems they can swop from 3.1's too . _________________ 2 New Troopers ! |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:03 Post subject: |
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Now it gets messy! I brought my nicely cleaned-up starter-motor down to the auto-elec specialists and they tested it - 30 times - and it popped-out the pinion and ran like a good 'un!
Since the nasty grinding-noise had been occurring only intermittently anyway - am I now left with no choice but to re-assemble the motor into the car and HOPE it works well??? That's the common dilemma with any intermittent fault, I suppose - it doesn't have to show up on testing!
I'm going to try again to inspect the starter-ring - now that the 'missing' starter-motor will give me better access to that. Of course, if that [once more] seems perfect, then I'll be back to the same dodgy choice of fitting a starter-motor which is UNCHANGED [apart from a little internal cleaning].
Any suggestion? _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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Gribble *******
Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Posts: 8448 Location: Holset H221W
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 19:03 Post subject: |
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Yes - the clutch will only slip under load so whizzing the starter up on the bench won't show much .
Remember a 4 cylinder engine stops in one of four same spots so make sure you do at least 360 rotation check _________________ 2 New Troopers ! |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 0:13 Post subject: |
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Yes, of course a 360° turn is needed. To this end, I sprayed a spot of white paint on the ring-gear and cranked it around [using the 24mm nut on the crank-shaft pulley] until the spot came around again. Quite honestly, there seemed very little wear on the teeth of the ring.
Re-installing the starter was easy enough, though I had to replace the 2 flanged 17mm nuts - they had been rounded off before I got at them! Annoyingly, the solenoid-lead came off during re-assembly - though I was sure I had tightened it! Getting the heater-pipes and the vacuum-tubes re-connected to their appropriate places cost some skinned knuckles but was very straightforward. Re-securing the oil-filler tube was a pain [and I lost one of the 12mm flanged nuts behind the low-pressure oil-pipe!].
All that and I still have to worry about the clutch!
Even though all the gears on the outside looked 'as new', there might still be some fault within the clutch-assembly....... Tomorrow I'll restart my lovely Trooper and hope it continues to behave itself for long enough to justify all the hassle! _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 21:25 Post subject: |
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Mr. G was right again - the clutch IS faulty - that's the unit 2nd from left in the strip-down picture, with the gear-ring on its outside.
As soon as I turned the key after final assembly, it made the same nasty crunching-noise as before I started! Although the visible gears and the bearings inside the starter-motor, looked brand new, there IS some fault inside that cylindrical unit. I did not see any clip or other obvious way to strip it down any further - but it's NOT solid - so somebody had to assemble it. How can I open it up?
Maybe the retainers are hidden behind the bearings attached to the clutch....? Do I just prise off the bearings with a screw-driver or a wedge? If something is broken inside, can I get replacement components? It would seem a REAL shame to have to replace the whole starter when the motor seems perfect! _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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d12 Lifetime member
Joined: 15 Apr 2009 Posts: 1214 Location: dublin ireland
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 23:52 Post subject: |
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There's a 3.0 starter motor on adverts ! €50 in Athlone 👍 _________________ 96 3.1 bighorn lwb ,widetrack |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:04 Post subject: |
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Thanks, Pal! I actually saw that ad - but Athlone is a LONG way away! I could hardly return it if it failed too! _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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