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Tech2/TIS issues


 
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02Trooper777
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Joined: 08 May 2016
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Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 23:32    Post subject: Tech2/TIS issues Reply with quote

Gribble once wrote regarding Tech2 - "There is not really anything you can put out of sync unless you have the 4 digit security code from IM for the immobiliser section. "


Well ... yes - we [I was not alone ...] managed to clear the immobiliser memory using Tech2  - only to find the "Reset immobiliser" did no such thing.

Eithan kindly offered to sort but Oxfordshire is a long way to tow a dead Trooper.

So ... opened up the TIS2000 disc supplied with the clone - and it is as much use [less use actually] as a chocolate teapot.
It is for the North American Market only and will not recognise UK VIN format  - so we are temporarily stumped.

Can I buy a UK version of TIS2000 that will work ?
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02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6
1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh)...
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 23:32    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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eithan h
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 15:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

you would also need the access key that is coded to the version of tis your going to use, isuzu don't make it easy so just getting hold of a tis2000 from a dealer won't work unless you can get their access key as well
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because when the dealer is no longer good enough there's still old mill motors....

old mill motors oxfordshires independent isuzu specialists.
http://www.oldmillmotorswitney.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/OldMillMotors?fref=ts
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spoondeep
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Joined: 25 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 13:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

@02Trooper777

Did you manage to get TIS2000 and/or your problem solved?

Hopefully yes, and if so, how did you do that?
Cheers
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 14:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

it got trailered to us and we recoded it all
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because when the dealer is no longer good enough there's still old mill motors....

old mill motors oxfordshires independent isuzu specialists.
http://www.oldmillmotorswitney.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/OldMillMotors?fref=ts
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spoondeep
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Joined: 25 Nov 2014
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Eithan
Nice one, awesome that you guys are were able to do that.
It quite a challenge to provide support for older/classic vehicles in any case, harder still given that Isuzu support for garages isn't what it used to be.
Cheers.
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02Trooper777
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 15:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep - eithan sorted it - top bloke and company. Nice to drive now.

I had contacted the supplier of the Chinese Tech2  clone ... and they confirmed that they only had North American VIN info. so I was stuffed ...
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02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6
1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh)...
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spoondeep
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Joined: 25 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 16:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to hear you/Eithan sorted it.

Side note on Tech2, Bosch ended up purchasing that product, and twas them who moved production from USA to China.
At that stage, naive as they were, started the flood of "clones" onto the free market.
At least during the early days, those were not clones as such, but typically the units that failed QC, and were rejected by Bosch etc.

In the West, there typically exists a protocol, definition of acceptable quality, and the means to measure that, resulting in a pass or fail, the fails going back up the line for analysis, and recycling.
Not so in China, where typically there exists no skill/ability/motivation to solve those issues, and/or learn from the mistakes, when you can find a market to sell on the failed units, and still make a healthy profit etc.
Then of course you get the 4th party vendors, who snap up the failed, failed units, and simply sell those on also.

When you consider a tech2, VCI module, cards, (no longer made), cables, connectors, there are many places where "details" and quality matter, and ALL are essential, so purchasing from China is a real *beep* for Tech2.

Also, Bosch shut down production 2013/2014, so everything made since is absolutely a "clone" in the sense, it's not managed, QC-ed by Bosch.
There are some UK vendors who buy in, test, and offer support though.

I'd also suggest people take note of the obvious, (but typically overlooked) difference between passive and active use of diagnostic tools.
If you just "look" at data, perhaps clear error codes, that is very different to changing parameters or certainly programming the modules of your car, which, when you consider the possibility you can brick it, is really a task that should be passed to the professionals imho.
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02Trooper777
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very useful info.  spoondeep.  Thanks [it explains quite a lot ...]

Not least why the 'original' (as in clone) DC/DC converter was near-useless and had to be changed.

We are all a lot wiser now.
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02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6
1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh)...
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02Trooper777
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Joined: 08 May 2016
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Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incidentally - the other night I looked at a 'BMW' part on fleabay.

Seller was actually in China despite item notionally being 'in the UK' - AND the listing stated "Made in Germany" very clearly,
yet the pictures showed the part stamped "Made in Italy" ....   be very careful if you don't want to buy Chinese [or Italian] tat ...
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6
1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh)...
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spoondeep
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

02Trooper777, yes you said it, quality these days can be a lottery.
But you know, I remember my parents saying just that, (sometimes about Japanese products), and even my grandparents saying similar things, but I wonder how may of us would settle for the limited markets our elders had?

Let alone the ignorance that everyone was kept in, brainwashed with.

Comparing is a pretty typical, human nature thing to do, and much like RyanAir make EasyJet seem like first class, it doesn't mean they are.

And although long before China started flooding and controlling global tech markets, I'd typically found Japanese made tech, to be of exceptional quality, far exceeding UK, USA, EU, and enter China, and make EVERYONE look excellent.
BUT, the same was said of Japan, and the key to success (in a quality sense),  in China, is to manage it with western principles and strict western market quality standards and checks.

You have to remember, us normal people, could probably never even get purchase access to a Tech2 when those come out, let alone afford one, so China clones do meet a market, you just have to accept the gamble, and decide if you want to spend your money.

But then again, I picked up a genuine Vectronix, Isuzu Tech2, date codes match the very last month of US production, before Bosch shut it down. Although it appeared to work, I needed to replace the VCI module, and I got that from a UK supplier, it's a "clone", but they check and provide warranty here in the UK, so at 10% of the cost of the Bosch module, (if you can get one), and how do you know if it is? Tricky.

DC/DC converters: Yes, that is a problem if those fail, but not really one of quality as such. Part of the challenge with the tech2 is, digital electronics expect a 5VDC logic, (less these days), and the Tech2 needed to talk to cars with 12VDC, (but really 14~15V), and trucks, with 24V or more, AND under circumstances, that dictated that probably the ONLY time the Tech2 would ever be connected, was because "something" was wrong with the vehicle, that something could be power regulation related. So they designed that from the start with various means of self protection, and aside from all the TTL stuff, the Tech2 screen needs an inverter for the backlight, (high voltage), leds will be 1 something, I've not seen the schematic, but looking at the PCBs, they have quite a lot going on.
Sure, you wouldn't probably do it that way today, but the Tech2 design is 25 years old, and it is what it is.
The DC/DC converter originally used, was from a vendor long out of business, and that being a bit obscure these days, not because DC/DC converters are not used, they ARE, but the packaging got smaller, pin locations vary, and getting something to just physically fit in the tech2, without hardware modification, is the tricky part.

There are some out there, and probably the best advice is purchase from a reputable source.

About a year ago, I ordered a bunch of linear flash cards, eebuygum, from china. All were in stock, various different vendors, (probably all the same person), all 6 of those sales, promised delivery from China, inside 2 weeks. Nothing arrived, then the sorry there is a delay. ! card arrived, faulty, can't init the tech2. The rest of them, they dragged out, past the eebuygum claim limit, then nothing. It took me a while, but I did get my money back, via eebuygum/paypal.

In the meantime, I linked up with a great bloke in Tilbury, who hooked me up with cards, VCI, spare keyboard, and a lot of tech background, so crediting Lee here for much of the Tech2 history I've posted here.

Aside from Tech2, there are a lot of other PC interface modules out there, some seem to be well made. But I have to say, I like and prefer the ergonomics of the Tech2, I have a Tech1 also, yes it's smaller, but the Tech2 is easier to use around the car, more rugged, better plastics and materials, a clip, better cables and adapters, easier to program, and if you have to drive the car and log data, that can be a real pain in the butt with a laptop, unless you have someone to sit and hold it all together.
The Tech2 can just sit in the footwell, or the seat, or your lap. Yes by today's standards some might call it old, but as an extension of a hand-tool, the designers did an inspiring job of the ergonomics.
That the Tech2 lasted 18~19 years in production, (excluding what is made since Bosch shut it down), is a testament to the designers, and history has endorsed that view imho.

Side note, I was talking with a clock maker last year, who did me a favor with a repair on a mates TAG. Turns out, most of the sub £2K Tag watches, use a seiko movement clone, made in China, but QC-ed in Switzerland, and in a watch, stamped made in Switzerland. Sign of the times, no pun intended.

Cheers
c
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02Trooper777
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

VERY interesting on all counts.

I'm afraid I am anti-China as far as goods are concerned - at the moment.
I reckon they are brilliant at making things look the same - but the quality of the materials lets them down.

1/ Chinese ['sealed for life'] bearings in my ride-on mower deck. Lasted barely one season before rumbling. Replaced with NOS Skefcos about 4 seasons ago ...
2/ Chinese plug lead set. First time I tried to remove one, the boot stayed on the plug. No glue. [neighbour reckoned "They spent more on the box. !"]
3/ Chinese motorcycle cable. The rubber 'boot' split after a few weeks - with the bike still in the shed.
4/ Chinese droplinks. Rubber dustboots split after less than a year.
5/ Chinese use of Germanic or Nordic sounding names to cloud true origins ...
6/ crazy Chinese answer to Q about eebuygum "copper Kunifer brake piping" ??(which)  >>> "It is made from iron-coated copper." !!!!

etc., etc.
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6
1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh)...
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jpwdrew
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Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Bath

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:45    Post subject: Tech 2 Reply with quote

Is there a Tech 2 suitable to use on these Troopers if so please reconmend one.
There does not seem to be anyone with a Tech 2 close to me in Bath so willing to buy my own and really need guidance on which/ what to purchase.
Thanks
John
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 13:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

we are probably the closest to you if you can get it to us
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because when the dealer is no longer good enough there's still old mill motors....

old mill motors oxfordshires independent isuzu specialists.
http://www.oldmillmotorswitney.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/OldMillMotors?fref=ts
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