Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™

redhop · Newbie Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 5 Location: gloster

Whilst I have visited the forum for some time I have never needed some help until now. I have a 1996 (p reg) 3.1 swb manual citation. It has been ultra reliable since I have had it the last few years and has just gone straight through its MOT and had a full service at 116k miles.

I went to start it the other morning and it started as normal except it shut off straight away in less than a second. I turned the key and it fired again and shut down straight away again. This was the outcome until I thought I’d better stop or I’ll have no batteries left. It was a cold morning with ice and snow on the ground.

Reading items on the forum I think the immobiliser has stuck on preventing the engine from running by activating the stop valve solenoid.

Any thoughts please and is it easy to isolate the immobiliser as I have read that someone has done that and had no further trouble for 2.5 years. Or is there a way to eliminate the immobiliser to allow the car to be reliable. This is more important to me as I can’t do too much these days due to my arthritis.

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fletch · *** Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 170 Location: Mansfield UK

Im not sure how to deactivate it but check all the fuses first just in case one has blown.

markymoan · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 16:41 Post subject:

I would start by checking for power at the solenoid on the pump, if there is then it could be the fuel filter.
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albion · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 20:23 Post subject:

I don't quite believe I'm reading this. Yesterday morning I drove my IDENTICAL Trooper on a 26 mile round trip without a problem (I didn't stop it at the other end as I was just picking someone up whose car had broken down LOL!). Well, her car was repaired and when I jumped back in my ultra-reliable trooper yesterday evening to take her back guess what?

...it wouldn't start. That was yesterday - same scenario, same symptoms.

If it is the immobiliser, then could it be a simple key problem?

Buy WHY? Two troopers with the same problem two days apart - something programmed in to the software? Conspiracy theory!

Anyone that can help - greatly appreciated! It is my daily transport and somehow my alternative Citroen Berlingo just doesn't cut it for long journeys I have to do.

Cheers guys!

Michael.

albion · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 17:35 Post subject:

Further to the above problem we notice that the engine just spins on the first cranking, same on second cranking, fires and runs up to 3000 rpm (sounds perfect, no misfires etc) then cuts completely on every cranking after that. engine cuts the same instant as the ABS light goes out. We have had the key checked, it is ok, and also checked the antenna for the immobiliser, also ok, also noted that enigine behaves as above with key antenna disconnected. I now suspect the fuel cut off valve on the injector pump, but I cant find one. there seems to be a black plastic cover on the back of the pump with a wiring loom connection where the fuel cut off should be. any suggestions gratefully recieved!!

phil, (Albions brother, who is the one who gets the dirty hands!)

Gribble · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 19:05 Post subject:

Is this the plastic round head key and immobiliser aerial round the ignition barrel type of thing ?

albion · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:40 Post subject:

Yes, thats the one, black plastic ring that fixes round the ignition switch.
phil

albion · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:52 Post subject:

actually the key has a square head, but has no logo on it so it could be a replacement, we have had the key checked at a local locksmith, and he said the key is working fine and putting out a good signal. trouble is, with no manual for exact models we are in the dark. I now assume that if the immobiliser circuit is not disabled by the correct key then the engine will not even turn over, whereas ours turns over and starts, then cuts. It cuts completely, as though the key had been turned off, and then restarts immediately the starter is operated, only to cut again the instant the ABS light goes out. I still suspect the fuel cut off valve on the injector pump, but with our pump there seems to be a black plastic cover immediately above the delivery head where the fuel cut off is usually situated. this seems to be a sealed unit(!) and without a manual, or some sage advice from your honored selves, I am unwilling to hack my way in for fear of making the situation worse!
phil

Gribble · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:03 Post subject:

Ok , now it works by picking up a response from the circuit in the key head when the ignition is in the acc postion but on yours you say the symptom is the same with the aerial disconnected from the immobiliser ?
So first you check for continuity round the aerial circuit from the immobiliser - multimeter on bleep test .
You say the key is ok ? I belive tech II (allways happy to be proved wrong though) is the only way of checking the transponder is ok did you have this ?
It would not be mutch of immobiliser if you could just put 12v+ to the pump solenoid and go, I think its a bit more to it than that will have a look at the book unless anybody else knows a dodge ?

Gribble · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:12 Post subject:

I think that the pump solenoid may have two coils on it which are ; the pull in one works when the starter is turned and a hold in one keeps the valve open when the engine is running - quite normal japanese way of doing things.This would be you prob but I have no info on the pump as yet !
Reading from the 4JG2 engine immobiliser section the immobiliser send a coded signal to the ECU for start up but looks as if yours is changing its mind so to speak - wonder if the relay is at fault ?
The transponder key has no logo so is prob original has it got a number on it ?

albion · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 20:37 Post subject:

Right guys, I checked the continuity through the key pick-up antenna, and it was good, also the key has no number on it. Mike took the key to our local locksmith who put it into a "machine" which beeped and read the info on the key, he said it was producing "all the right codes" and could be read easily, so I am assuming it is OK. I have noticed that on later models the immobiliser works by completely disabling the starter circuit (or is that just on petrol models?) whereas my starter circuit is working and the engine runs, albeit briefly Crying or Very sad

It does sound like the fuel is being cut off for whatever reason. what I need really is some of you guys to recommend the best manual to get for the diesel engine models. we got a "Mitchell on demand" CD from the interweb which is OK, but only covers petrol models. ours is a 4JG2 engine( I think , VIN JACUBS69DT8101244)but I have no pictures of the actual injector pump to consult. most of the pics on the net have a very obvious single wire solenoid. the dual coil explanation makes a lot of sense as we have three or four wires going into the aforementioned black plastic cover where the fuel cut solenoid is normally situated. This pic http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/Trugga_bucket/Engine/cfcc77a5.jpg shows a pump on the right with the cover over the solenoid, and on the left a new one with the solenoid exposed There does seem to be a bolt to the extreme right of the right hand pump which may be holding the cover on, but even if I get it off I doubt I will be able to get into it to test it. the old dodge is to remove the plunger from the solenoid so the engine starts (but wont stop!) of course it could be a faulty solenoid, but I think it more likely, as you have suggested, that something in the ECU or the immobiliser is telling the solenoid(s) to switch off. Previous failures of solenoids of this type usually manifest after a warm up period of a few minutes (miles) when the coil gets warm and goes open circuit. this fault is far too regular IMHO to be that.
Phil,

rallymarshall · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 21:09 Post subject:

note to mods, remove the vin no before some1 uses it Wink

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Gribble · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 23:01 Post subject:

If you can get the British trooper manual on line from the club somewhere page 7352 shows the wiring for yours.
Now I will assume that you have done the basics like fuses as there are 3 - C9 , C14 ,C16 all part of it.
Is the 'check engine 'light working still ?
Tech II will read the fault codes for this also the manual is showing KW2000 which is a common obd scanner protocol as its not a 3.0 a normal scanner may read it too.
Plug is just under the gearchange cover across from the clutch pedal

albion · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 23:19 Post subject:

Hi, Gribble,

Dumb question - What is a Tech II?

Ta!

Albion

PS good point about the VIN number - point taken.

albion · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 23:34 Post subject:

Yes Gribble, we checked every fuse we could find ( inside and under bonnet) and the check engine light still works, we have had to knock off for the weekend as mike is very busy , but keep the info coming , and thanks to all for the replies! I will get mike to order the manual
Phil