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4JX1- 3.0DT Essential reading (part 1)

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suzu
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Joined: 07 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 23:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

with the strainers it's best to put a smear of sealant around the rubber the seal as well as it's past the seal that the air gets drawn in.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 23:59    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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Twister
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 21:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Gentlemen, an update.

Spoke to Monks Heath Motors this morning regarding the oil pressure relief valve. Not available as a seperate item. If I want to replace it I have to buy the complete oil filter housing at the astonishingly competitive price of just £405.00 + VAT Shocked Shocked Shocked Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Also no luck at Andrew Page. The idea was to perform a cheap process of elimination. Guess theres no such thing these days.

So thats a no no. I'd rather dissassemble it myself and rebuild the valve, its only a ball and a spring after all, isnt it ? But before I attempt that ;

Been doing some thinking on this subject, and it struck me that if the oil pressure relief valve was leaking wouldn't this cause a lack of oil pressure at all times ?

Not having any reference point for what the oil pressure ( at the guage ) should be reading I was wondering if anyone out there could enlighten me.

These are my current oil pressures ( approx due to the fact that the guage is the most vague I have ever come across, and assuming that the 0 - 85 psi range is linear not exponential.)

Cold Idle roughly 20-30 psi
Cold acceleration 80-90 psi
Hot idle roughly 15-30 psi ( occasionally the red oil light will flicker,which is triggered at 14psi or below, but according to the owners manual this is normal, and a blip of the throttle will put it out.)
Hot acceleration / motorway driving anywhere from 30 to 50 psi depending on circumstances.

Do these figures seem familiar to anyone? . They seem acceptable to me.

Regards,
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suzu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 23:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

usually on idle cold they read 85psi and the relief valve opens at 36psi.
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fotograf
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ALL
I shall join opinion, that the lost oil pressure in the beginning of cold start - not because of the drainage valve in the filter. And as not because of the sensor of oil pressure near the big filter at a cooler of oil.
I replaced different filters, different brand many times. Result identical - NO any results.
I also have replaced the sensor of pressure of lubricate oil . And it has not helped.
One my familiar owner of the same car (the same anxious) has decided to make this problem dirty work and to change seal of a strainer in sump. He has disassembled all and has found, that old rubber O-ring on a strainer are quite serviceable also good.

And after replacement O-ring the problem was not solved.
May be, that the reason in itself oils the pump ?
The pump is in a back part of the motor much above a level of oil in sump. If during time the density (tightness of gears) in the pump worsens, oil merges in sump and the pump remains dry. the air bubble forms in a oil channel, which prevents normal capture of oil at start after long stop.
In very many motors such pump is make shipped in oil in sump. And never have such problem!
At least, it explains, why this problem happens, if the automobile stands with an inclination « face down ». In fact if to stand with an inclination « face up», oil flows down from the pump much less, (the level of oil in sump is closer to the pump).
Concerning O-ring in injectors. I have disassembled an injector and have found there such O-ring inside.

Its kind speaks for itself. Recollect, what pressure inside. Such detail to work will not be correct. But I do not know, how consequences of such deterioration are catastrophic.

The whole figures on a scale are millimeters.

P.S.-Many thanks for this theme. Here is no official import of these motors ISUZU in Russia so there is no full information on repair and the analysis of malfunctions. This forum and discussions very much help. Ave Internet!
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sjp63
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great pictures - hope it goes back together ok. Can you get the new seals?
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fotograf
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 15:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

the new seal was purchased in some particular "auto parts store " .
It was not original ISUZU, but same size and good material.
External diameter = 5mm, thickness =1 mm.
Still works (5 month) Very Happy
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Twister
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 15:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

suzu wrote.

Quote:
usually on idle cold they read 85psi and the relief valve opens at 36psi.


I presume that is 85psi on the dash gauge, so from this can I safely assume that I do have low oil pressure, at least at cold idle ?, and that a leaking relief valve is looking like a possibility ? ( I.E. the oil is seeping back to the sump through this following a warm shut down, leaving an air bubble next to the guage sensor, and possibly as far up as No2 pump. ) This would mean that on start up the whole of the system between pump 1 and pump 2 would need priming, as if you had just performed an oil change. This may also explain the slight stall as the guage registers pressure, as the No3 pump is trying to push / pull oil from a reservoir that it has partly emptied and has not been replenished in time. If this is the case, then could this cause the No 2 pump, and maybe the No3 pump premature wear ?

Is anyone else with me on this one, or am I way off the mark ?

It seems that if you are using Isuzu OEM oil filters, then you will have 2 oil pressure relief valves, one in the filter, one in the housing. But it would only take one of them to have a scored ball or a weak spring to cause low oil pressure.

Why put two valves in the system, why not just the one in the housing ?

Do Isuzu know something that they're not telling us ? ( Rolling Eyes ) Is it possible that the housing valve has a habit of sticking ever so slightly open ?

Is it just me, or is this the sort of thing that your local dealer should know about ? I detest the veil of secrecy that surrounds this engine !

Regarding the injector O rings, the service campaign, according to the Blue print article, covers both the sleeves and the O rings. I just prey to God that the replacement ones on mine are up to the job !

Regards,
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suzu
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 17:21    Post subject: Reply with quote



hope this works
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Twister
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 20:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much, you're a gent. Smile

Just about to leave for the Pub, a rare occurence these days !, so I'll have a good butchers at that tomorrow.

Regards,
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BigHornE
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:11    Post subject: Re: As posted Reply with quote

Dafydd Wynn Williams wrote:

Incidentally, although I understand the Trooper manufacture ceased in 2003? are there still new vehicles being brought into the country (not Japanese imports) does anybody know?

Dafydd W.W.


A while back, shortly after Trooper production ceased, I read that the UK distributor for Isuzu had been negotiating to buy up all the remaining stocks from Japan, along with Holden in Australia. Mostly commercial models - no read windows, I think.

BH
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Scrooge
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 22:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Twister wrote:

Would you know whether there is a non return valve anywhere in the oil system that keeps the second oil pump primed ?


Perhaps more to the point, is there a non-return valve that prevents oil flowing back through the main oil pump (ie the lubrication circuit one)? There is a non-return valve in the oil filter presumably this should do the job for the whole of the lubrication circuit?

If not, could the oil cooler empty and cause a delay in oil pressure coming up on start up?
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suzu
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 0:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is a basic description of how it works the oil goes up the strainer round the pump and in to the top section of the oil filter housing, through the cooler then through the filter back in to the bottom of the housing then down the main oil gallery.
the top of the housing has a ball and spring relief valve that would open and let oil in to the bottom section of the housing say if the filter got blocked so it could still lubricate the engine albeit unfiltered oil. there is also a regulator valve that has a plunger pushing against a spring, this if it is forced to open fully will just let any excess oil straight back to the sump, it could also if it got stuck or weak drain the cooler back in to the sump hence taking a while to fill the cooler again and causing the delay before the gauge registers any reading.
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Scrooge
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds a likely explanation to me. I suspect that the regulator valve may have a leak rather than being stuck or weak as that would presumably affect the running oil pressure. That would also be consistent with it taking an overnight stop for the oil pressure delay to happen.

I should imagine the valve could only be inspected by removing the oil filter housing and that if faulty a replacement housing would be required?
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suzu
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 20:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

the valve is under 1 of the the 2 gold coloured bolt heads you can see in the bottom of the housing unscrew it and out it pops.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 22:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Changed the oil and filter yesterday so examined the filter housing and the valves which are under the two bolt heads top centre left of the following picture.



The ball and spring by-pass valve is under the 22mm bolt head towards the rear of the car. Looked fine, the ball was not scored or otherwise damaged and the seating looked fine as far as I could tell using a mirror.



The regulator valve is under the 24mm bolt towards the front of the car. It is a single unit which contains a spring pressing up on a plunger . When the oil pressure is sufficient it presses the plunger down past some holes which will then allow oil into the sump reducing oil pressure. The seal of the plunger against the body of the valve looks quite good but it is just metal on metal so I think it is quite possible that oil could very slowly leak past this when the engine is off thereby draining the oil cooler.



There was also an oil leak between the oil filter housing and the engine block which I was able to fix by tightening the four nuts holding the oil filter housing in place. It is possible that there could have been an internal leak too which might have allowed the oil cooler to slowly drain when the engine was off.

This morning there was no significant delay in oil pressure coming up but I'll wait and see whether this is a one off!
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