Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™

[jbaker]

Has anyone any comments about the symptoms I describe below? I'm sorry if it’s a bit long winded.

Last week I drove several hundred miles on motorway. After travelling at 70 mph for about 15 mins the temperature gauge started to rise from its normal 1/2 way position. Before it reached the "hot" point the "check engine" lamp came on. I stopped for 10 mins and let the engine cool down, which resulted in the "check engine" lamp going out and the temp gauge returning to a more normal position, so I resumed the journey.

What I don’t know is if the "check engine" lamp merely indicated that the engine was overheating, or if it is warning of another problem that is causing the overheating. The lamp came on after the temperature gauge started to rise, but before it reached the "Hot" mark at the end of the scale (which it never reached because I always stopped as soon as I could). Does the engine management system keep a log of past problems, which can be uploaded? Or does the "check engine" light have to be on when they connect their test leads to it for them to get an indication of the problem?

When I checked under the bonnet I found the coolant expansion tank was full to the top and had been overflowing through the spout on its filler cap. The engine was turning the fan, but it does that even with a cold engine (I think it is a viscous fan).

I wasn't towing and the air temp was about 20 deg C. I reduced my speed to 60 mph on level road and it seemed happy to run all day at that apart from the climb up the M6 north towards Shap, which resulted in a repeat of the symptoms unless I reduced to 55 mph. I don't see these symptoms during "A road" use.

With the engine cold the coolant is now at the MAX mark in the expansion tank (even after losing some coolant). There is no coolant visible in the radiator through the neck of the filler, but that is not surprising because the MAX level of the expansion tank is well below the level of the filler.

I've seen some criticism of the 3.0 TD's radiator in this forum. I think I have the "skinny" version - when viewed from the side the metal part looks to be only 25mm from front to back.

I travelled on at no more than 60 mph. At the these speeds it was giving about 35 mpg, which is unusually good. For shorter journeys on A roads it gives 29 - 30 mpg.

I've noticed that one of the metal spring clips holding the lid to the air filter box (front nearside corner of engine bay) is missing and there is a 1 - 2mm movement if I press down on the lid at that point. Could this be letting in too much air making the engine run lean? There were a few drops of liquid inside the filter, in the centre of the bottom of the box, but that could have leaked in from the coolant overflowed from the expansion tank, which is right next to it.

I've also read lots of posts about the 4JX1 engine needing various work on the injectors and oil strainer. Worrying that this overheating was a symptom of lack of effective lubrication I checked the engine oil but that seems OK - it is sitting at the MAX mark on the dipstick and doesn't smell of diesel. Tomorrow I'll ring the number mentioned in other posts to check if the "campaign service" work was done when it was serviced for the previous owner.

Thanks.

[Google]

[suzu]

defo sounds like the rad problem to me

[jbaker]

Thanks, maybe I should consider a better radiator then. Any ideas how much I'd have to pay (parts & labour)?

I notice that the oil cooling radiator is in front of the cooling system radiator. Doesn't that mean some of the heat from the oil will be transferred to the coolant instead of being removed from the engine? Wouldn’t it have been better to put one above the other, or side by side?

I've decided that I should have seen some coolant through the radiator filler so it must have been low, even though the expansion tank was at MAX. I topped it up with about 1.5L to take it up to just below where the rubber seal of the radiator cap sits.

After that I idled it for a few minutes with the radiator cap off and some bubbles appeared occasionally. Then I gave it a run though not hard and long enough for the "check engine" light to come on (I slowed down as I spotted the temp gauge rising higher than its normal position - 'normal' for me is the temp needle pointing a tad below half way, at the "1" of the "13" on the voltmeter, which is above the temp gauge on the dash). Under the bonnet the level in the expansion tank was well above MAX, up near the top but it hadn't got high enough to overflow. As I'd lost no coolant through overflow that way I'll check the levels when it's cooled down to see if they've dropped below what I started with because of losing coolant any other way (no obvious leaks to be seen).

I'm going to get someone to check the "check engine" condition, assuming the information is still stored. I guess I should ask them to check pressurisation of the cooling system too.

[NickP]

The problem that you refer to with the rad is on imported 3.1tds not the 3.0 It's a good idea to get it checked along with the headgasket though.Most garages use a dye that tells you whether there are any exhaust gases in the water system or pressure test the system.

[suzu]

some of the early 3.0l also had the rad problem although isuzu did soon sort this problem out but it's possible it could have one

[jbaker]

This morning I had it checked by a local dealer (Carstins of Balsall Common). They said the "check engine" condition was an "over-temperature" condition.

They didn't run it hard or long enough to repeat the symptoms but did some checks anyway and couldn't find anything wrong (pressure check, no exhaust leaking into the cooling system).

They said that if it is a gasket problem it is at a very early stage and I should just continue to run it and keep an eye out for things getting worse. To take the head off to inspect it they said would cost me approx £1300, an offer which I'm not going to leap at!

I checked with IM and they said IZ03 (replace injector sleeves) & IZ04 (replace oil strainer) service campaigns were done in Nov 2001. Adrian Hogg said nothing more is shown as outstanding.

[suzu]

how much !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we charge 4 hrs labour to remove the head but that is only to remove it's then another 4 to bolt it back down providing you don't need a new one. did they check the rad for it being the thin type? if not i'd find another dealer.

[NickP]

[jbaker]

It turns out the £1300 estimate includes new gasket and consumables such as oil. I'm not sure of their labour rate but they said they'd need 10 hours to do the work; anyway that much money is completely out of the question. Suzu, out of interest do you mind telling me what you would charge for the same work?

They said the over-temperature condition (code P0217) is measured by a sensor in the head. I suppose the coolant temp gauge will lag behind that. If they never ran it long enough for the "check engine" lamp to come on what was the value of the dye test they did (£28.38 inc VAT)? They called it a "block test".

I'm not too happy about their suggestion of leaving the fault to develop further (to make it easier to diagnose)! Is there another way of checking for a gasket problem that doesn't require the head to be removed? At the moment I need to give it 20 mins at 70mph before the gauge starts to rise and a little later the light comes on. By that time the system is well pressurised.

What I still don't know is whether the system is being pressurised by the engine or just naturally pressurised because of the coolant's high temperature. I asked them if they checked the radiator cap is OK - they said "of course". Why does it have no problem all day at 60mph, but at 70 mph the temp start to rise quite quickly but only after about 20 mins at the speed - it's like a switch has been thrown?

I'm going to have another word with them on Tuesday to confirm whether a beefier radiator is available. Maybe someone here in the forum could spot a skinny radiator from photos (too late now to start taking photos).

My nearest alternative dealer is Heritage in Leicester. They are slightly cheaper than Carstins, however I had serious problems with how badly they checked the brakes at a 6000 mile service, which I won't go into now but might mention in another post later - but I will never ever use them again.

[suzu]

easy way to check the rad is to remove the cap and look in if you see 2 rows of holes it's the bigger type if you see 1 row of holes it's the skinny type.

[jbaker]

One row of narrow slot shaped holes as far as I can see.
_________________
3.0 TD Trooper Citation

[jbaker]

To aid identification I've talken some photos and they are at http://www.jdecbaker.plus.com/Trooper/Radiator/.

It's difficult to see into the filler but I'm pretty sure there's only one row of the slots.

The print of the label on the radiator is wearing away (and my photo is appalling) but is says: Calsonic, Made in Japan, 897169???240, large 4 in a box, 0k and 8X in smaller boxes.
_________________
3.0 TD Trooper Citation

[suzu]

forgot to say that the later versions did go to elongated holes and by the looks of it you got the bigger rad anyway. is the viscous fan working?

[jbaker]

The viscous fan turns when the engine is hot, but it does that even when the engine is cold. I don't really know how viscous fans work, so I don't know if it turns enough when the engine warms up. With the engine off I can turn the fan by hand though there is some resistance. I haven't tried comparing the resistance between hot & cold engines.

I've tried to reply to your private message but I'm having problems. (I put a request for help in the Computer Bytes forum but there is no reply yet.) My reply to your message is...

[suzu]

i did get your message so your doing ok!
seems weird for it to fail the emissions though we have never had one fail yet. it's looking like it may need a head-gasket then you got the bigger rad the fan seems to be ok and i take it you have changed the thermostat so unless the air through the rad is blocked i can't think of anything else it could be.