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Idiot's guide to BIO diesel!

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andyisuzu
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Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 79
Location: Southish Wales

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 18:15    Post subject: Be careful Reply with quote

Okay here are some facts. I ran Land Rovers for ten years on various WVO and SVO mixes. There are lots of snake oil practices and misinformation.

1. WVO (waste vegetable oil) is bad for the head, injectors and pump. If you use it you must budget for these to go wrong. So somewhere in the region of £2500 including labour over 3 years. You also need to halve the service times. The reason it cleans your fuel lines is because it has organic acids and some soap in the mix. The acid is corrosive.  You will get deposits in the fuel filter. Emissions will be higher and on a mix of over 30% you will struggle to pass an MOT. There will be lots of water in it and you need to filter down to at least 20 microns. You must have a heated setup and preferably start on diesel. Expensive and could be catastrophic for your engine, pump and fuel system.

2. SVO (straight vegetable oil) - it is thicker than diesel. It will cause less damage than WVO. However, the thickness will cause the pump to work harder.

3. Calorific value - Both WVO and SVO have a lower calorific value and cetane rating. They do not burn as well and they give out less energy. To get a higher calorfic value (mpg) you have to have very complex setups running solid fats. You will get less mpg. Adding petrol or white spirit does not help except to make it a little less thick. It does not make any significant difference to burn rate or atomisation. Nor do they offer protection. Using white spirit is illegal.

4. Just a note about your pump. The cam is very prone to break up with LSD (Low Suplhur diesel) - think then how that will be worse with WVO or SVO. You need to budget for a new pump. The clearances are so fine and the rubber is susceptible to WVO and SVO.

5.With WVO and SVO you will get leak back into the oil. So your sump oil will go higher but this will be with the SVO and WVO. That oil will have a higher acid content and carbon content (increasing carbon deposits in the engine). This is bad for your turbo. Your turbo needs good clean oil. Think of the bearings running at thousands of RPM.

Maybe using 5% SVO is fine. It will lower emissions slightly and quiten the engine down a fraction. Ten years ago when cooking oil was 40 pence per litre at Aldi it was worth it. Now there is such a small margin and the costs can be very high - forget it.

Making biodiesel is completely different and involves some lethal chemicals which by law must have proper storage. Methanol will kill you if you do it in your garage without ventilation.

I hate the price of diesel - we are being robbed but it is not worth messing with WVO or SVO in my opinion.

In case you are wondering. I used 300 and 200 TDI Landrovers each covering well over 30,000 miles on WVO and SVO, I had a fuel filter heater and fuel lines heater matrix. Along with that I experimented with White Spirit, Turps, alcohol, unleaded petrol and even thinners.I found that WVO wrecked head gaskets. The SVO wrecked a turbo. Both had to have injectors and glow plugs replaced at 20,000 miles. Injectors are serious bits of kit and any deposits kill the spray pattern.

I serviced them every 3000 miles.

In conclusion, you have the potential to wreck an engine - you have been warned. A faulty injector can mean a new engine completely.

Andy
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Isuzu Bighorn 3.1TD Auto, Seven Seater 1995 (With Lotus Handling). Love it.


Last edited by andyisuzu on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:05; edited 1 time in total
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volksjim
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Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 99
Location: scotland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

1993 bighorn...coming up for 100,000 miles on pure veggie oil..except winter time pure diesel..still getting a grand 12mpg no matter what fuel i use "same as when i bought her 12 mpg"..money i have saved will get me another troop ..or three..if this one goes pop  Laughing so win-win for me  Very Happy she just keeps trundelling on Cool
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DYLAN
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 5115
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

12mpg Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked
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KKW
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Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 183
Location: Wrexham, North Wales

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

volksjim wrote:
1993 bighorn...coming up for 100,000 miles on pure veggie oil..except winter time pure diesel..still getting a grand 12mpg no matter what fuel i use "same as when i bought her 12 mpg"..money i have saved will get me another troop ..or three..if this one goes pop  Laughing so win-win for me  Very Happy she just keeps trundelling on Cool


I've got a '92 Bighorn that's done about 140,000 miles and I get around 25mpg on diesel.
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andyisuzu
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Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 79
Location: Southish Wales

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:59    Post subject: 12 mpg Reply with quote

Are you serious 12 mpg????

If I floor my Bighorn I can get it down to about 22mpg. If I drive like Thora Hird I get 25 - 28 mpg.  If your 12 mpg is right then you have serious problems. Your injectors or pump are knackered.

I would expect with an 85% calorific value of WVO or SVO (WVO has sometimes a slightly less calorific value - maybe 80%). You should be getting 20 - 23 mpg.

Running on WVO and driving carefully with a Land Rover Discovery I could hit 30 mpg. There is something seriously wrong with your setup.

Andy
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volksjim
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Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 99
Location: scotland

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 20:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

i drive like i just stole it Embarassed  Embarassed  Laughing plus it's full of workstuff Rolling Eyes
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waylander1969
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Joined: 12 May 2011
Posts: 3
Location: wales

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 15:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

I changed the fuel filter on my bighorn to a plastic inline filter (£3 each) and fitted a preheater (£28 for copper pipes and a bit of soldering) off the top end water supply.
Fuel passes through the heater then filter and on to the engine.
I run on 70% SVO and 30% D.
Have been doing this for 5 years plus.
Been buying the SVO from Makro since it was £8.70 for 20l.
Gutted at todays prices of £21 for 20l.
Still cheaper than £1.4 per l for D.
Had no problems with any fuel Issues or pump.
Rough as a badgers *beep* for the first few mins in the morning, but once the water temp comes up it's just like running on pure D.
Saved me a fortune over the years as I drive to France and back 5 times a year in my Bighorn.
I'm getting around 25mpg on this.
When I've had my MOT the tester has said that the emissions are the lowest he has ever seen for a D engine.
Clean as a whistle.
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TrooperDan
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010
Posts: 2337
Location: Near York, E Yorks

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 17:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running 100% veg and loving filling up for £60 instead of £100. turns over twice before starting in the morning then runs all day making all those behind me hungry.  Laughing
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cai876
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 158
Location: Near Bangor, North Wales

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 21:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running 100% waste veg and loving filling up for £0.00 instead of £120.
Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
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1994 Isuzu Trooper 3.1TD 146,000 miles - Now dead
MK2/Mk4 hybrid with 3.1TD engine conversion from the old one in progress

Tyres 265/75 R16 BFG MT KM2
Suckin' Veg Oil Baby!
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markymoan
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 16267
Location: Naughty Step

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 22:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

cai876 wrote:
I'm running 100% waste veg and loving filling up for £0.00 instead of £120.
Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy


I need your addy again so I can send hate mail  Evil or Very Mad  Laughing
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Slate
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 331
Location: Walsall, West Mids

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 16:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran a non turbo Peugeot on veg oil for a while. I saw them doing it on Top Gear, ran round to my corner shop and bought a drum lol.
I never had any problems for the few months I owned the car. Performance-wise, it was still slow as *beep*.
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rickbu
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Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 32
Location: Huddersfield

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 18:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

waylander , a word of warning .. i have been running various cars on svo and wvo for around 4 years and my homemade bio for the last 2 . DO NOT TRUST THE CHEAP INLINE PLASTIC FILTERS. the hot veggie has broken mine up in the past and all the shi*te has made it into the pump , im telling you this because i have had pumps fail due to this , fortunately it was just a scrapyard visit for another one and i also know how to strip them down and change the seals , make a good one from two bads etc.. but if i learned anything from running veg oil it is take filtration seriously . i have even seen stock filters detiorate from hot veg oil going through them .

You have all been warned , this is speaking from my own experience.
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keithj
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 232
Location: west midlands UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 20:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

[anth.payne, from what i've read on Bio sites the home brewed bio is superior to garage pumps in that more care is taken in the manufacture as they dont want to damage their engines.  I have read of one guy who took a sample from a garage and it didn't pass the 100% Bio test??  so give yourself a pat on the back.

Keith

quote="anth.payne"]For starters, I'd check out some of the resources below... bio diesel is very different from using straiht oil/diesel mix...

basics:
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Processor_-_basic_design
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Biodiesel_Process_Guide
http://www.biofuel-uk.net/

a very useful forum:
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum

I'm also starting up producing my own bio diesel... you can run on 100% bio diesel and is comparable to diesel from the pumps.

I've also been lookin at company who sell 'kit' for producin biodiesel with all the required components.[/quote]
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rickbu
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Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 32
Location: Huddersfield

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 16:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont buy a kit , most of them are a ripoff for something you can easily build yourself if you do a bit of research , all my bio making equipment is homemade and thats including meth recovery system, storage , and final filtration before pumping into jerry cans
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goochy
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Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Nth Suffolk

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 20:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

oil drum,immersion heater,drill with a paddle for stirring,caustic soda,250l drum of methanol...sticky garage floor,large amounts of clotty soap to dispose of...... did all that a few years ago when i had my pajero.i give it its dues that old bus would probably have run on tramps piss if i could get enough.

from what i remember, pre 91 fuel seals would harden and break down, after that the changed the type/composite so they lasted a bit better with bio.
biggest problem people have that scare them off bio is they wait until they have done 100k miles THEN try it.as stated it will clean your fuel system problem is all the waxy *beep* has to go somewhere soooo bio gets the blame for ruining pumps blocking injectors etc when its actually debris from dino diesel.so when you decide to change over filters and changing them  are very very important!!!

unless its changed again, HMRC allow you 4000 liters a year before you have to pay duty on SVO as a fuel.
remember, if you add or process it this changes.you are now producing a refined fuel,if you want to be legit theres form you can fill in lol!

adding white spirit (10-1 blend) is the "lazy bio" rather than illegal its processing fuel so you should pay duty (things may have changed its been 5 years since i did it)

also, personally i wouldnt run veg oil in the winter, it says on the side of it wont pour under 0c and thats for its correct use! put a bottle in the freezer for a bit and see what your fuel pump would try to pull along a small pipe! correctly refined bio is better in the cold but i would still go for dino diesel for a few months.

and bio isnt dangerous or bad for your vehicle, its an alternative fuel, has a standard that it "should be produced to.home refining is always best as you will produce cleaner than a business as you end up filtering and washing for that perfect batch everytime Smile

and last time i checked forecourt diesel was up to 5% bio blend anyway Wink so we are all using it!
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