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handymanat39 **
Joined: 23 Jun 2012 Posts: 60 Location: Bedford
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 21:33 Post subject: Can a 3.0 ltr run on veg oil |
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Hi All
I have a 2000 year 3.0 trooper 110k miles, will this run on veg oil or do i mix with petrol ?? or not take the risk.
Ta very much
Andy
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 21:33 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
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DAVID's J99P Lifetime member
Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Posts: 1614 Location: UK's Horse Doping Capital
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 22:30 Post subject: |
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A member under the guise of Rally Marshall said he ran his on it without issues, However the majority
of 3ltr owners (self included) would not run the risk, believe me I have talked it over with many members
but felt that the saving in fuel ( 5 thousand odd miles a year) against a grand for a new set of injectors
didn't for me add up to a saving for the risk involved
Veggy oil is best left for the ole 2.8s and 3.1s _________________ aka x66dag
David ltm47 |
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Malcolm Lifetime member
Joined: 22 Feb 2009 Posts: 834 Location: Great Yarmouth Norfolk
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:35 Post subject: |
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X66DAG wrote: |
A member under the guise of Rally Marshall said he ran his on it without issues, However the majority
of 3ltr owners (self included) would not run the risk, believe me I have talked it over with many members
but felt that the saving in fuel ( 5 thousand odd miles a year) against a grand for a new set of injectors
didn't for me add up to a saving for the risk involved
Veggy oil is best left for the ole 2.8s and 3.1s |
Ditto Dave _________________ Never let a meal go by----Empty sacks dont stand up!!! |
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nicerass ****
Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Posts: 457 Location: Leicestershire
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:29 Post subject: Re: Can a 3.0 ltr run on veg oil |
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handymanat39 wrote: |
Hi All
I have a 2000 year 3.0 trooper 110k miles, will this run on veg oil or do i mix with petrol ?? or not take the risk.
Ta very much
Andy
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Why do you not use proper refined Bio Diesel it runs the same if not better than many pump diesels, especially the supermarkets, has better lubrication qualities and is the same viscosity, does not freeze like vegetable oil and with the correct additive or 50 / 50 mix using the diesels own additives it will run fine even through the winter months. I am not a mechanic, will always admit to that, but i use bio at 60/40 in our 1.7 cdti astra, my friends 2.0 mazda TS2 diesel and my wifes 1.4 VW polo 3 cylinder diesel and they are bang on with no issues. The VW handbook recommends Bio for the engine on this model. People are just frightened of Bio as they have been put off by pure veggi users thinking they are using Bio. Veg oil wil not kill certain older engines but it will certainly not help them in the long run unless they are looked after well. Pure refined BIo Fuel eliminates the worries of vegetable oil as it removes all of the Glycerides etc leaving a pure fuel. I do pure, and i do mean pure Bio Fuel at £1 per litre for members on here, may even go to 95p if i get my raw ingredients cheaper. You will at best still be paying 95p approx per litre for new veg oil, and if you use waste veg oil in your engine then afraid you have to be off your trolley. A 3.0 litre isuzu is more than capable of handling Bio Fuel. Mixing petrol with oil will just thin it, it will not remove the *beep* in the oils that do the damage. _________________ Hienkel Tourist 103 A1
Daimler V8 250 1966 |
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nicerass ****
Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Posts: 457 Location: Leicestershire
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:34 Post subject: |
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In addition to that i know the quality of my Bio as i produce it all at home through this machine......
[img][/img] _________________ Hienkel Tourist 103 A1
Daimler V8 250 1966 |
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griffter ******
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 Posts: 955 Location: west sussex
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:39 Post subject: |
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nice set up! does vehicles still smell like chip shops though? |
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nicerass ****
Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Posts: 457 Location: Leicestershire
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 14:46 Post subject: |
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Not at all really, it does have a different smell to it but certainly not like a chippy, the main cause of the chip shop smell, especially if someones puddled enough to use neat used cooking oil is the fats and the general smell of the oil to start with. If its new oil it smells lightly of cooking, if its used it smells like your chip shop, once the fatty acids are removed and you have removed the Glycerol from the oils and washed it it smells like linseed oil and if you can picture a linseed oil heated up, then there you have your smell. If its mixed with diesel that smell goes slightly. If you have smelt a gas conversion truck when following it, that smell is quite strong, Bio is nowhere close to that. I ran our 3.1 100% until Bun brought it in Scotland, he wants Bio to carry on running it as he was impressed with the figures and performance, its a great fuel, there are no issues with it, even Stobarts are converting to it, as are Mc Donalds and various other motor companies. People must also realise that they are getting a minimum of 5% Bio in their diesel at the pumps as its the government policy now anyway. They say that is a maximum but only because they will be losing on duty. I visit Germany and holland regularly and their petrol flap info sheets encourage the use of Bio, in fact i think that all fuel stations offer from B5 - B100 Bio Fuel in Germany!! That is minor mix to full 100% Bo Diesel. _________________ Hienkel Tourist 103 A1
Daimler V8 250 1966 |
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Dibblah *
Joined: 21 Sep 2012 Posts: 13
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 21:12 Post subject: |
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Hrm. Copper heater element and brass fittings. Copper increases the oxidative potential of biodiesel - which means it goes off quicker. If you're storing it, make sure there's virtually no air-gap in your containers.
I'm just getting set up with my production kit, but have been researching this quite extensively - First batch (15 litres) passed the wash and 17/3 test just fine and worked really nicely
I'm also trying to DIY a rancimat -Doesn't seem too hard.
Cheers,
Allan. |
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nicerass ****
Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Posts: 457 Location: Leicestershire
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 22:30 Post subject: |
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Dibblah wrote: |
Hrm. Copper heater element and brass fittings. Copper increases the oxidative potential of biodiesel - which means it goes off quicker. If you're storing it, make sure there's virtually no air-gap in your containers.
I'm just getting set up with my production kit, but have been researching this quite extensively - First batch (15 litres) passed the wash and 17/3 test just fine and worked really nicely
I'm also trying to DIY a rancimat -Doesn't seem too hard.
Cheers,
Allan. |
The unit has no brass fittings and the heater element is stainless steel with a max temp of 80 deg, all of the fittings on the processor are cast. The green tank with the copper pipework is the dewatering tank, it holds no bio thus does not affect it. The air content in the containers makes no difference whatsoever to the time span of the bio as it contains anti fungal additives. Sunlight will affect the bio more than air so all bio, if any, is stored for no more than 2 weeks and in black containers My production techniques are pretty faultless, my 27/3 has never been cloudy, never heard of a 17/3 test so cant comment on that result but as anyone who produces bio will state, if it works for you thats all that matters. I sell my recipe on eblag under my site name on here, nicerass, you can read the feedback for the illustrations yourself. Its great to know that you are succeeding with the production of this great fuel and i really wish you every success in the future with it. Another person shoving one up the governments bottom is always always nice to know.
Regards
Brett _________________ Hienkel Tourist 103 A1
Daimler V8 250 1966 |
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Dibblah *
Joined: 21 Sep 2012 Posts: 13
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 23:20 Post subject: |
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Good that you're aware of the copper issue! It's all good fun, isn't it... The issue with degradation has nothing to do with fungal / biological reactions. It's the polymerisation reaction of the individual monomers and production of side-reactions. It's a exponential reaction and happens in both the feedstock and the biodiesel itsself.
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/npbf/pdfs/39096.pdf
And yes, I meant 27/3 - Sorry, too many things on my mind!
Cheers,
Allan. |
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Dibblah *
Joined: 21 Sep 2012 Posts: 13
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 23:28 Post subject: |
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In case anyone is wondering what the issue with copper is:
(from the above article)
"For more than 70 years it has been known that the presence of certain metals such as Cu,
Fe, Ni, Sn, and brass (a copper rich alloy) can increase the oxidizability of fatty oils1.
Even from the earliest work, copper has been known to generally be the worst offender.
More recent work has verified that even 70 ppm Cu in rapeseed oil greatly increased
oxidation as measured by headspace oxygen consumption"
Cheers,
Allan. |
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nicerass ****
Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Posts: 457 Location: Leicestershire
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 23:59 Post subject: |
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Wonderful, i will try to remember that next time i do a mix _________________ Hienkel Tourist 103 A1
Daimler V8 250 1966 |
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Gribble *******
Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Posts: 8448 Location: Holset H221W
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 0:16 Post subject: |
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Nice to see a new member who can spell and has a tyros grasp of the periodic table .
Welcome Dibblah -
Not related to the sausage/bun seller Dibblah are you ? _________________ 2 New Troopers ! |
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nicerass ****
Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Posts: 457 Location: Leicestershire
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:32 Post subject: |
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I have just read some of the enclosed report from dibblah over a bacon buttie and a nice cup of hot chocolate, i say hot, it was warmed to 46.5 defrees and then left to settle for 10 minutes and then guzzled down, done this way to ensure no powder residue was left on the throat and related intestinal tracts thus making sure i did not burn my throat and it seems nothing is conclusive as regards bio and diesel engines, all reports seem to indicate nonn conclusive results so really the report is a pile of crip. It makes no reference to the production of bio, just a bio......... how is this bio made, under what conditions etc.
I hopr thit oll the spelling was correct in this pubication. _________________ Hienkel Tourist 103 A1
Daimler V8 250 1966 |
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Dibblah *
Joined: 21 Sep 2012 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:39 Post subject: |
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Firstly, thanks for at least giving it a read!
Okay. Anything to be sold as Biodiesel (in developed countries) must meet certain standards. One is the oxidation stability test.
This is usually done with a rancimat - which heats the biodiesel up and simulates a far longer period of time (months, rather than hours) of storage in a not-completely-hermetically-sealed environment.
Oxidation isn't a linear process. It proceeds faster the longer the feedstock or biodiesel is sitting in storage - either at elevated temperatures or with high oxygen availability make this worse, but just the oxygen above the fuel makes a difference. This is one reason why bubble washing with air is a bad idea.
The products of oxidation are not clean burning and free-flowing - They leave much longer (physically bigger and more likely to stick) residues.
I'm not saying that *your* biodiesel production is bad - I'm quite sure it's of better quality than I can produce at the moment, especially given that my feedstock is WVO.
What I am saying is that the issue is real and can be mitigated against quite easily - so why not add another sales point to your pitch?
Cheers,
Allan. |
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