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DIY Suspension lifting - The how to

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Twister
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 16:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry guys, been rather busy, Lee, I'll phone you later tonite, coz I figure I would make more sense of it on the phone. We will get to the bottom of this, but it sounds to me like the Calmini arms are the source of the problem.
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Chris B
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 17:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

There he is... MrT is back  Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr T

If you looked back through the thread You'll see that I have the same problem with my VX so I'd be pleased if you post anything you've managed to sort out with Lee. BTW I don't have Calmini Arms, I've done the Ball Joint flip and fitted the 1/4" shim in there as well but even with 10mm of camber shims there still out at the top.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Col
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Webby
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seen in one of the mags that Superpro make camber correction bushes.  Would they be any help?  Don't know if they make any to fit the trooper though.  
Might be worth the question to your prefered supplier.  I know OEC 4x4 can supply them, i have found them to be very helpful in the past.
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Twister
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 18:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

No they don't make them for the Trooper.
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Twister
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 18:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, before we go into individual details, lets cover the basics.

Just so we're all singing from the same hymn book;

Looking at the front wheels from the front of the vehicle -

( / \ ) = negative camber ( tops of wheels in, bottoms out ), good for racing cars, not good for 4x4s as it causes oversteer and therefore increases roll over risk.

( \ / ) = positive camber ( tops of wheels out, bottoms in ) A small bit of positive camber is acceptable on a 4x4, but too much will cause severe understeer, and will feather the tyres at an alarming rate.

In standard form the Top wishbone is shorter than the bottom wishbone, but the suspension is set at the factory to a height where the wheel sits as near as damn it vertical ( i.e zero camber) at static ride height. As the suspension travels downwards ( i.e droop) the shorter top arm scribes a smaller radius than the longer bottom arm, effectively pulling the top of the wheel further in than the bottom. ( negative camber ). In standard factory form this is just noticable.

However, once you start to crank up the torsion bars you move away from the zero camber position as the standard, and at 2 inches of lift the negative camber ( / \ ) becomes noticable. The Calmini top arms are longer than stock to compensate for this. The ball joint flip effectively pushes the top arm back up towards the horizontal, pushing the top of the wheel back out again. However, if you did a ball joint flip with the Calmini arms fitted you would be in effect compensating twice, which would induce positive camber ( \ / ).

Likewise if you performed a ball joint flip without cranking the torsion bars that would also induce positive camber.

The one thing that must be said for the ball joint flip is that once performed the top and bottom arms move differently in relation to each other, and so at the extremes of suspension travel the cambers are markedly different, but considering this doesn't happen when on the road it doesn't really matter.

The other thing to note is that my workings are based on a 98+ Trooper, which has longer wishbones to start with. It will vary from model to model at which point the camber changes become noticable. I know my old 1990 2.8TD showed too much negative camber at 1.5 inches of lift, but a ball joint flip gave it too much positive camber, so by lifting it even further after the ball joint flip, to about 2.5 inches, the camber at static was reset to virtually zero. There is a certain ammount of trial and error involved, and I feel we may be getting a little too complicated, after all it should be a fairly straightforward process  Confused .

Now, lets get these motors sorted between us  Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 18:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine look like this on the 2.8 mr t   / \ . 1" lift and flip. have i *beep* up Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 18:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr Twister wrote:
I know my old 1990 2.8TD showed too much negative camber at 1.5 inches of lift, but a ball joint flip gave it too much positive camber, so by lifting it even further after the ball joint flip, to about 2.5 inches, the camber at static was reset to virtually zero.


OOOOOOO now you are talking  Very Happy
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Twister
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 19:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Si, have you reset the tracking to parallel, coz if not that will accentuate it.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 19:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah!!!  Confused  Rolling Eyes  no, but does it really matter for mine tho??
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Twister
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 19:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

So........why you askin  Confused

Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 19:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

just in case owt new popped in ya head, and it worked  Wink , but still would it help in anyway if I corrected it?
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Twister
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 19:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said Si, trial and error. I know mine is very sensitive to even a 1 degree change in tracking, so yes it probably is worth a try.
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Chris B
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 19:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think I will leave mine alone for the minute  Confused  Confused  Confused
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Twister
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 20:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yours is the easy one Chris, just a carbon copy of mine  Laughing .
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