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Intermitant NON START Trooper 3.0

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Jon H
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Northeast UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 19:05    Post subject: Intermitant NON START Trooper 3.0 Reply with quote

I just wanted to pick peoples knowledge with a problem on my Fathers 3.0 ltr Trooper Citation. He has had a intermittent non start problem for some time now and has taken his car into various garages around the Northeast UK including our local Isuzu/SKODA dealer Derek Slack motors in Teesside.

He then took it to a local garage first who carried out the following work :-

Complete fuel line clean out
Fuel tank removed cleaned and re fitted
New fuel Filter (this had been replaced on service @ 1 month prior to problem)
The car was fitted with a Temp tank, fuel line and ran.
The sump was removed and the Oil Stack pipe was checked found cracked-welded/repaired and re fitted
One way valve fitted into the fuel line - In case the fuel was running back into the tank


He took the car away it was running but they were unable to repair it completely saying that it still sometimes won't start. After trying it for a few days all was good until the time when it wouldn't start once again.

He then took it back to the garage who tried numerous other repairs (they checked the Oil stack pipe again) but failed to diagnose the fault and therefore took it to our local Isuzu dealer in TEESSIDE. They diagnosed the fault as the HIGH pressure pump not making enough oil pressure and therefore will not let fuel through to the injectors. They give my Father an estimate of £2000 to replace the pressure pump and injectors.
My Father not wanting to give up on "The old girl" found another high pressure pump  £800 on eebuygum which was from a good engine - crashed trooper. He sent the pump to our dealer and they replaced the pump (Making a good one out of 2 pumps) as they said the replacement wasn't much better? (I believe they swapped the electric part from old pump and fitted it to the replacement pump. He was starting to lose faith in the garage and said NOT to change the injectors as they'd already been done under a call back warranty 1-2 years prior to this problem. The dealer said they would recommend they be changed as with a Worn/FAILED high pressure pump metal filings can find their way to the injectors and cause problems starting. They also said the oil pressure is out of recommended spec although my Father said the gauge in the car has never read better especially since the oil stack pipe was repaired.


The problem is his car won't always start either first thing on a morning or even after he has used it and therefore it's already "warmed up". When he goes to crank the engine it will "SOUND" like it's firing but refuses to start. If the engine has already been run that day or perhaps on a warmer day it might start but when it comes to press the throttle nothing happens. Once it has started AND he can REV the engine it will run fine until he stops the engine again. He could leave it for some time 10 mins up to next day and find it might start and rev up again or may not. He told me he knows when it's ok as it ticks over @1000 rpm if it ticks over @800 it won't REV up.  

He really loves Troopers this is the second one he's had after the first was stolen (the older engine 3.1) which he had hardly ANY problems with. The car has been parked up on his drive for over 12 months as he needs a reliable car to get about and his money ran out. He has been forced the use Mam's Toyota Land Cruiser Sad. He now has some money again and wants to put the Trooper back on the road.

He has spoken to MANY people about his car and has heard that there is a sensor on the throttle that if the oil pressure isn't high enough the car although will start and tick over will not REV up?  They suggested disconnecting this sensor and "BRIDGING the connections" to fool the ECU into thinking the oil pressure is ok?

Thanks in advance for any help on this matter. If anyone requires anymore info I will try my best to find out for you.

I am a trained mechanic (trucks/hgv's) so I have no access to Tech 2 other than normal tools. I have told him I have posted on here and perhaps someone may be able to point us in the right direction.

Thanks
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Jon H
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
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Location: Northeast UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 19:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the REALLY long post but I thought as much info as possible would be better.
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ladydriver
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Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Worcestershire

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 23:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds very like an ORPS problem, check out the various posts on the 'white wire trick' when it fails to start.  This kids the ECU into thinking there is sufficient oil pressure to fire the injectors.
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Jon H
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
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Location: Northeast UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 23:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. I will look at the forums on this trick. Every time I have called up and dad has tried to start it she's started. I thought it sounds like a sensor fault of some sort.

You would think the dealer would of tried all the sensors first before saying the high pressure pump has failed. It makes sense to try the cheaper things first before spending almost what the car is worth on repairing it.
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Gribble
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

You cant take the high pressure pump to bits ,says so in the workshop manual  Confused You can put a new control valve (ropcv) in for 370 quid and if its an intermittent starter cut the white wire going to the rops sensor (plenty of posts on that) and see if it goes .
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Gribble
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dash oil gauge is for the engine oil not the injection system-
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TrooperDan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

gotta love dealers  Rolling Eyes
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Jon H
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
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Location: Northeast UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah from what they said I got the feeling they didn't know what they were doing.. After my Dad picked up the car he was told that there is a sensor on the back of the pump and perhaps it could be that .. LOL you think they'd of tried that first.

As for the white wire trick I can pretty much do that myself however when I do will the car run as normal from then on. With it being intermittent can I cut the wire and use the car for a week as normal.. Then if the car starts ok from then on I change the ORPS. I have found a tutorial on an Aussie site I can follow?

Thanks for all your help guys.

My Dad really wants his car back on the road Smile
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Jon H
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
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Location: Northeast UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dad said that if there is trouble starting but he manages to get it going the engine will not Rev up will that also be an ORPS problem?
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TrooperDan
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Location: Near York, E Yorks

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 15:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like orps. i can tech2 it for you before and or after.

get white wire cut and join it with a quick release connector for next time. if it starts join it back up to drive
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Jon H
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
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Location: Northeast UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 17:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dan .. I'll mention it to him.. I notice you're only 1.5 hours away from us.. Only bad thing is there's no tax or test on the car atm with it being parked up for 12 months.

I'll ring him tonight
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 18:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

the white wire test is exactly that a test don't drive it around with it disconnected, do this test when it won't start and if it starts with the wire disconnected then it's the orps at fault which is just under the rocker cover so dead easy to change but will need zeroing in on tech2, it will run without it being zeroed but will run better if it is a bit like fine tuning.
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Gribble
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 18:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Australian site  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

http://www.itocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31709
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DYLAN
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 19:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gribble wrote:
Australian site  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

http://www.itocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31709


hilarious
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Jon H
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Joined: 15 Jul 2013
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Location: Northeast UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 13:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all your help Smile

Here is the link to that Aussie site I was talking about. Can someone take a look and see if this is about right ?

http://forum.australia4wd.com/index.php?/topic/22261-4jx1-orps-diagnosis-and-replacement/

So what I'll do is cut the white wire and perhaps put a switch in or something. This way Dad can switch it from off to on as and when needed (because fault is intermittent). I don't live with my folks anymore and am at work most of the time.
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