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Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™ Isuzu Trooper, Rodeo, Bighorn, Mu & VehiCROSS Owners Club
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atlantic.a.616 *
Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 18:35 Post subject: |
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oh forgot to mention, there where no error codes this time |
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Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 18:35 Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join! |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 18:43 Post subject: |
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The filth you found in the MAP-Sensor tube is a common fault - usually cured by disconnecting the rubber hose to the EGR and blocking its end with a screw, or something. You must clean this tube thoroughly and also the spigot leading into the inlet-manifold. This would certainly cause poor performance [and your fault-code 34] - but it would not, usually, STOP the engine.
Test the Crank and Cam-Sensors, as Gribble suggests - and especially the Crank-shaft end-float - and then see if it will run better. Better yet - if your 'odd spares' includes either one of these sensors - try THAT in place of your existing units.
When running, you can check the voltages - with the connectors firmly in place - by pushing a slim metal connector down beside the pins [I used a pin connected to my meter's probe by a crocodile-clip!]. Alternatively, you could even stick a PIN into the wire directly - I would NOT cut the insulation!
J2-7 [ORPS] should vary up and down as the engine is speeded up or down, as should J1-18 [TPS] and J1-14 [ROPCV] and J1-26 [Tacho] and J2-23 [MAP] - though this would vary more slowly - as it's only affected by the Turbo-boost. _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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atlantic.a.616 *
Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 23:06 Post subject: |
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Many thanks Browndoff, using a pin is a great solution to the problem . with regards to the Crankshaft and camshaft sensor I put a post just before yours, about my findings from Gribbles troubleshooting help. If yourself, Mr Gribble or anyone else has any ideas on the posted crankshaft sensor findings, they would be much appreciated.
Kind regards, Simon |
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Gribble *******
Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Posts: 8448 Location: Holset H221W
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Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 23:27 Post subject: |
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Many but its hard to do at long range -
I shall ponder a while and come back with some ways to go ,and no doubt Master e will do too
Some while in this case meaning by Friday _________________ 2 New Troopers ! |
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atlantic.a.616 *
Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:02 Post subject: |
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Hello, I managed to get a number of volt meter readings off the ECU before the engine shutdown.
J1-14=9.5V (Rail Press CNTRL Valve)
J1-18=2.26V (Throttle Positon TPS)
J1-19=0.13V (Vhicle Speed)
J1-26=12.45V (Tachometer 1)
J2-7=2.21V (Rail Oil Pressure ORPS)
J2-9=1.03V (ING SW)
J2-18=2.62V (Oil Temprature)
J2-21=3.32V (Intake air Temperature)
J2-23=2.2V (Boost Pressure MAP)
Not sure if the reading are highlighting a problem will get the rest of the readings next time we start the engine again.
First thing this morning, just to be sure, i swapped the crank and cam senors again but same as before it failed to start. I cleaned up the seat of the sensors with grade 1000 polishing paper. placed them back in their original locations and engine started. however for the first time we noticed after about 5 mins there was a slight drop in revs, like the auto choke cut out. then the engine ran for about 20-25mins before cutting out.
thinking out side of the box, could this be a fuel related issue. Also would it cause an issue if i skim the seat of the crank sensor down by say 2 thou, allowing the sensor to get alittle closer to the crank?
Cheers Simon |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 17:42 Post subject: |
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Hi Simon The readings vary a little from car to car - but yours seem OK.
J1-14=9.5V (Rail Press CNTRL Valve) As expected - voltage drops as %-Open increases
J1-18=2.26V (Throttle Position TPS) Seems higher than I'd expect - that'd be typical for about mid-throttle range
J1-19=0.13V (Vehicle Speed) As expected [effectively 0 V]
J1-26=12.45V (Tachometer 1) Seems slightly higher than I'd expect - voltage drops as Engine Speed increases
J2-7=2.21V (Rail Oil Pressure ORPS) Seems higher than I'd expect - for a pressure which should be fairly low at tickover.
J2-9=1.03V (ING SW) Seems lower than I'd expect - I usually get from 9 - 11 V
J2-18=2.62V (Oil Temperature) As expected - low for cool engine
J2-21=3.32V (Intake air Temperature) As expected - mid-range for cool engine
J2-23=2.2V (Boost Pressure MAP) Within expected range - being slightly higher implies good boost from good Turbo
I'm rather less familiar with the Crank and Cam sensors - having managed to avoid them thus far! But since Gribble says they should be interchangeable - it's NOT good that it won't start when they're swapped. It implies that one or other is just 'getting by' as things stand - and won't function if not 'at home'. I would NOT rush to shaving the seatings - if you were wrong - then you'd have to insert a shim to bring it back to 'normal'.
When 'all is well' there's a balance between the Pressure read by the ORPS and the 'required' pressure set by the ECM for this Pedal-Throttle-setting [and which the ROPCV opens/closes in its attempt to match them]. If the ROPCV is NOT working well - or the readings of the ORPS seem daft, then this balance cannot be reached - and the engine stutters to a halt. At present, no fault is glaringly obvious - so maybe a suitable Data Reader [like Tech2] is needed to read more subtle signs....? _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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atlantic.a.616 *
Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 20:25 Post subject: |
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when I thought everything was going smoothly, it went south. was testing the voltages on the ECU, tested J2-26 and the engine cut out, little smoke came from connector J2-10. took out the plug and found the white protector sleeve had little melt on the side but was insulated. tried restarting but did not start. took power off ECU and on again but still did not start. on the dash no heater plug lit up. when doing the DTC code test i noticed the heater plug light not lit, ABS came on for a few seconds (normally stays on) and airbag light went off (normally stays on). seems it is not seeing the ECU. Anti thief system still working. checked fuses did not see anything blown. I am gutted as I think I just killed the ECU. is there anything i can check to see if something else broke and not the ECU?
i am now contemplating taking the back off the ECU and see if only a wire has been broken. |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 21:14 Post subject: |
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If you had your (+) on J2-26 and your (-) on the Battery negative - then it should read ZERO Volts - 'cos J2-26 is just the ground-line for the Throttle-Position-Sensor.
That could NOT - in itself - cause a problem with the ECM. You would have to have some wire connecting J2-26 to LIVE to cause any fault.
If the external EARTH-POINT on the ECM were broken, rusty or otherwise NOT making a normal earth - then it might...? Check out the casing of the ECM before you panic - it may yet NOT be a serious problem! _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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atlantic.a.616 *
Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 14:31 Post subject: |
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Hi Browndoff, yep had the (+) on the J2-26 terminal and (-) on an the engine bolt. not sure what casued it, the pin slipped down into the connector as normal without much pressure.
Took the ECU out and could not find anything visually wrong with it. put it back in hooked it back up but same thing it did not start and the glow plug dash light did not light. tried bridging the teminals 4 and 6 to display MIL light DTC codes and seems it did not see the ECU as it displayed lights like it was getting ready to start, no glow plug light and ABS plus airbag light disappeared after a few seconds. Normally when checking MIL codes these lights and the glow plug lights stay on.
I checked the power connector to the ECU with the igniton ON, (J1) and found J1-1 = 12v, J1-2 = 12v, and J1-5 did not show any voltage.
Went through the fuses again just in case but everything looked OK. Please let me know if there is something else I can check or do that might be a fault other than the ECU?
Kind regards, Simon |
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Browndoff *****
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 513 Location: Dublin 13, Ireland
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 17:19 Post subject: |
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I'm sorry to say it - but you've got me worried now! At best, you've got the connectors mixed-up - they should be [J1], [J2], [J3] from the Engine-Block to the Wing.
On Connector J1 [32 Pins]
J1-1 = Fuel-Temp = 0,5V - 2.8V [typically]
J1-2 Should be blanked-off!! [It certainly IS on mine!]
J1-5 Should be blanked-off!! [It certainly IS on mine!]
On Connector J2 [32 Pins]
J2-1 = Injector #1 = High-Voltage Spike [not a steady 'measurable' voltage]
J2-2 = Injector #2 = High-Voltage Spike [not a steady 'measurable' voltage]
J2-5 = Diagnosis Data = 0V if there's no Data Reader attached
On Connector J3 [5 Pins]
J3-1 = Battery-Voltage
J3-2 = Ignition-Switch voltage [usually slightly LESS than V-Batt]
J3-5 = Base voltage for Injectors = 2.5V or there abouts.
Unfortunately, if you NOT getting the 'right' connector-pins blanked-off [as in the online diagram], then you DON'T have the same ECM setup as mine and can't expect the same set of voltage readings.
I'm down to hoping that someone else will join in who has more detailed knowledge of how to test or fix an ECM...........? _________________ 2002 LWB Trooper 3.0L
I've done some major repairs, including replacing half-shaft, replacing fuel-injectors etc. |
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atlantic.a.616 *
Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 22:08 Post subject: |
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ahh in my haste i put down the wrong number connector, sorry it was J3, just double checked the sheet. its the connector with only 5 cables in So sorry for wasting time
Kind regards, Simon |
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atlantic.a.616 *
Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:50 Post subject: |
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thanks everyone, the porblem has now moved to an electical issue Ive now created a new post under electrics regarding the ECU issue. thanks for everyones help, if anyone does have any ideas what to try to rule out damaged ECU, it be much appreciated.
kind regards, Simon |
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MattZo Newbie
Joined: 25 May 2020 Posts: 1 Location: Calvi (2B)
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 20:34 Post subject: |
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Red Robbo wrote: |
Excellant pictorial Bdoff .
Though I would like to comment
The labels for HP/LP might be better described as Vacuum/Atmosphere ?
and also to state that it is showing the 2WD configuration which is with both solenoids powered up......Just clarifies thinga a bit |
Hi everyone!
At the beginning I welcome everyone and I apologize for the quality of my English
I have just such a problem as Red Robbo described.
The 4WD drive works without a problem but - when I turn on the 2WD the clutch in the wheels are still on. The indicator on the board lights up green.
My car is Isuzu Rodeo 1997 3.2 V6
Thanks for any tips. |
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