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Heater matrix help and coolant levels.

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steviebax
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Joined: 12 Sep 2008
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Location: Wiltshire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 21:38    Post subject: Heater matrix help and coolant levels. Reply with quote

Hi all.

I have a 4jx1 3.0 td trooper citation s reg.

The passenger footwell started filling with water and having had a look under the glove box it would appear the heater matrix has sprung a leak.

I've never done one of these before but I've found the procedure - remove dash etc - to get it done, from a trooper workshop manual.

However, my trooper has AC - will removing the heater matrix require me to do ANYTHING with AC ??  Not sure how it all ties together you see.

And does anyone know where the coolant pipes go through the bulkhead into the matrix ??  I just assumed I would be able to see a couple of hoses with jubilee clips on the end so I can undo them from inside the engine bay.  I have found a couple of pipes coming off the engine block on the passenger side but they just disappear through the bulk head ? No clips or anything.  Does this mean i have to undo the coolant pipes off the matrix from inside the cabin ?

And finally. I will obviously have to replace the coolant.  Knowing that this is a 3.0td S reg citation would you recommend blue or red coolant.  And how many litres worth ?? I can't find anywhere that tells me the total capacity of the coolant system so I can't work out the 50/50 ratio if I dont know how much liquid goes in system in total - is it a 8 litre system, 10 litre ?? Just don't know.

Please help guys ?? I basically have this weekend to rip out the dash, matrix etc and then next week to get another matrix for refitting the weekend after. So any help - shortcuts, tips,tricks would be very very much appreciated.

p.s anyone know where I can get another heater matrix for this - delivered in 5 working days ????

Thanks all.

Steve
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02Trooper777
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Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volumes etc.
Isuzu original owners manual states 35% mix of ethylene glcol protects down to -20C.
                                                    50% protects down to -36C.  
Radiator cap should be 1.05 kg/cm2.

4JX1 coolant capacity with manual transmission = 9.3 litres.
4JX1 coolant capacity with automativ transmission = 9.7 litres.

[I use water collected from a de-humidifier as it is effectively distilled water for free]
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02Trooper777
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet again, this forum has no Edit function - so I cannot correct typos.
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Rhanagar
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Removing the heater matrix won't affect the A/C system at all. No need to worry about that. As for the hoses the clips are usually buried behind the rubber soundproofing on the bulkhead. If you push it back you should see them. Two hoses about 1" diameter.

Coolant wise I tend to buy 5 litres of concentrate. Get two 5 litres tubs of water from a supermarket then pre-mix them into 15 litres. Pour out 2/3 of concentrate into a jug. Then use one bottle of water to top up the coolant bottle. Then pour half of the concentrate coolant into the now emptier bottle of water. Top that up with the other bottle of water. Put the last of the concentrate into the last bottle of water. Shake not stir to mix Very Happy Doing it this way you are guaranteed to have the right mixture and also you have a spare 5 litres for emergencies.

I personally would use Red coolant in the 3.0 4JX1. Make sure you drain all the old stuff out.
_________________
1990 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.I 2.8TD Manual Lotus Edition
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto Lotus Edition

Deceased
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto LS

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02Trooper777
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be using red in my 4JX1.

(Couldn't believe the previous owner was apparently using plain water only!! - to judge by the light rusting in the steel hoses and block passageways)

Completely agree with Rhanagar - flush out any trace of old antifreeze as some types are alleged not to mix well and no point in 'polluting' good new stuff.
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steviebax
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 15:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers guys.

I may have more of a serious issue though.

When the heater matrix was leaking into the passenger footwell there was a strong smell of diesel !!!!!

I've bypassed the matrix for now because l need the trooper on the 19TH for towing but obviously when l released the pipes some coolant escaped.

I took the radiator cap off to top up the coolant and there was a oiley scum around the top and this scum smelt distinctly of diesel.

So...diesel in the water then.

I read somewhere on this forum that this can be due to injector sleeves AND that there was a RECALL done for this problem.

How can I find out if my trooper has had the recall or not.

Cheers
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 22:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

phone a dealer with your chassis number to hand
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02Trooper777
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 0:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for info.
I did this check when I bought my 'project'.

Local Isuzu dealer came back a couple of days later with history of "Campaigns" stored on IMs computer.
It confirmed not only which recalls done but on what dates. Also gave unasked-for info confirming mine was a parallel import via Cyprus.

So IM really quite helpful.
[Mine had injector recall/campaign and a "TPS harness" recall ... but no record relating to sleeve O-ring issue]

I must admit I'd like to know if recalls on sleeve O-rings ever led to Viton rings being used.
Or, if not, what sort of life expectancy there was on replacements used?
Viton is are reckoned to be a more resiliant/durable material ... BUT some Viton O-rings are apparently black rather than the green I have previously seen - so not easy to tell just by looking.

My genuine Isuzu engine overhaul gasket set has new black (sleeve) O-rings within it - but I have no way of knowing what material they are made from.
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02Trooper777
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet again I find myself wanting an Edit facility !
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't ever remember seeing the sleeve seals in a gasket kit? the injector seals are in there though, can you put a pic up?

the recall for the sleeves was a very early one that they tried to stop the oil and diesel mixing so after they realised it didn't work they probably took it down along with the recall for the vac pump
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02Trooper777
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 0:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks eithan.
I may very well be wrong then. Won't be the first time !

And as it is 99.99% certain eithan knows his stuff - I can now chase up some Viton replacements.
The ones in my original engine are actually green material (just possibly Viton) and probably date from when it had a new cylinder head a few years ago.
The ones on my 'spare'  engine's sleeves are black material.


I'll recheck the gasket kit tomorrow, have a count up and try and get a picture.
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Never knew there was a vacuum pump issue early on - I must read more !
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Rhanagar
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eithan can supply the latest official Isuzu seals for the injectors. They have the most chance of success of sealing.
_________________
1990 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.I 2.8TD Manual Lotus Edition
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto Lotus Edition

Deceased
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto LS

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eithan h
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Green ones normally come in the milners heads and are usually glued in with something which doesn't allow the o rings to expand and contract which contributes to the diesel and coolant mix
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02Trooper777
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think in the history file the previous owner bought the head a few years ago from a firm called Peer Parts who are still trading in 4x4 heads.

Almost certainly from China via Australia ?

Will check if the green O-rings are glued (I've not removed any yet).


I take Rhanagar's point about "genuine" Isuzu O-rings - but I'd still be happier if they were Viton !

Antifreeze.
Unable to sleep, I have just been reading a stroppy exchange on an Australian forum.
Mostly of no consequence (both contributors are now "banned") ... but did spot this :-
" ... the head guy in the Isuzu Club in the Middle East agrees with me that using green coolant and changing it every 2 years is the way to go. He spent a fortune to find out that the red long-lasting coolant is probably a big problem."
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Red Robbo
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

02Trooper777 wrote:
Thanks eithan.
I may very well be wrong then. Won't be the first time !

And as it is 100% certain eithan knows his stuff - I can now chase up some Viton replacements.
The ones in my original engine are actually green material (just possibly Viton) and probably date from when it had a new cylinder head a few years ago.
The ones on my 'spare'  engine's sleeves are black material.


I'll recheck the gasket kit tomorrow, have a count up and try and get a picture.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Never knew there was a vacuum pump issue early on - I must read more !


There you go...fixed it for you.
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