QuoteSeek - free to use insurance comparison site

Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™
Isuzu Trooper, Rodeo, Bighorn, Mu & VehiCROSS Owners Club
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   Watched TopicsWatched Topics   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your personal messagesLog in to check your personal messages   Log inLog in 
CalendarCalendar  ITOCUK Club ShopClub Shop  ITOCUK Classified Ads serviceClassified Ads
ITOCUK HomeITOCUK Home   dynamic online chat serviceChatrooms  Yellow Diamond ClubsYellow Diamond Clubs

Another 4JX1 no start .....

Goto page : 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™ Forum Index -> Engines
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 16:53    Post subject: Another 4JX1 no start ..... Reply with quote

A summary first :-
Bought an otherwise very tidy but non-running '02 Trooper (manual g/b, euro3 engine).
"Engine just stopped and would not restart."
Engine would not turn at all.
Removed head and found No.3 piston crown melted, bore scored and bits of ally had jammed two exhaust valves open. Piston touched/locked.
Sourced another largely complete engine with good bores/pistons.
Built up second engine with first head (replaced 2 valves, guides good).
All new gaskets, injector copper seals, O-rings from Isuzu set except that I chose to put Viton O-rings on sleeves and the injectors.
Turbo OK.
New Exedy 3-part clutch.
Cleaned RPCV whilst HPOP being swapped over.
Found No.3 injector (a 53) cracked at tip ... sourced another of same batch/grade (50) from a running Trooper.
Put 1,2 and 4 back in (all 39 grade's). S/h one into No.3
4 virtually new Denso glow plugs and new timing belt. Timed flywheel with 'indent' at 6 o'clock, cams at 1 to 2, dots and notch aligned, front pulley on TDC.
Made 'linking stay' for oil pick-ups. New oil seals.
Two new oil filters - Air filter very clean. 7 litres of 5w-30 synthetic and oil rail half-filled before bolting pipe on.
Two good Yuasa batteries (both 550CCA, green light and showing 12.6 -12.7v) fitted.
So ...

Primed diesel/checked fuel was at acorn nut - and cranked over quite easily. Did not flatten batteries but cranked enough
to get 40 thingies on oil gauge (I know it is 'engine oiling' not rail pressure ...)
Not a glimmer of firing.
Neighbour squirted a bit of EasyStart into trunking and it fired but did not keep running.

Suspicion fell on battery voltage as gauge showed 9'ish when cranking.
Added a 620CCA battery via jump leads but still no start.
Because original batteries had been disconnected - "flash codes" were clear and nothing shows up yet.

Should I check voltage at ECU pins ??
IF it is below a certain figure (?) would the ECU "not enable" the injectors ?
Any other suggestions ?
NOT overfilled sump because pickups/seals are OK (and linked).
NOT done 'white wire' because original fault seemed to be only cracked injector=melted piston>locked up.
Not looked at exhaust when cranking.

One other thing occurs to me ... original cam sensor had gone AWOL during the laid-up period
along with odd bolts and two air-duct clips (I reckon PO put them "somewhere safe" ... I never had them)
Fitted a used one from an allegedly running Trooper. Can it be satisfactorily tested/eliminated 'on the bench' ?
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Google
Sponsor





PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 16:53    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


Back to top
eithan h
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 8195
Location: oxfordish

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 18:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

when you say cleaned orcv how far did you go in terms of stripping it down? also bear in mind these take a bit of cranking to get the air out of the gallery
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
eithan h
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 8195
Location: oxfordish

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 19:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

for it to start the ecu needs to see a cranking speed of 200rpm, oil rail pressure at about 3.5-4 mpa, and a cam signal that coincides with the crank signal. then it will enable the injectors and start to inject and hopefully stay running!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 0:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally stripped the ORCV and cleaned each part with brake/clutch cleaner then reassembled.

I'll have to find a means of accurately checking actual cranking speed. Now - somewhere I've got an ex-aircraft industry Smiths tachometer - the type you have to contact the crank pulley with - not electronic.
Hah. It was amongst the 'treasures' in my computer desk drawer all the time ... it reads 0-200 but has three sets of internal gearing you can select to indicate
200 rpm max or 2000 rpm or even 20,000rpom. It is complete with a rubber pointer and a rubber cone for end-on usage AND a 2" diameter rubber disc for use at right angles.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1Y8TJNbXfkM/UPAg29RtMoI/AAAAAAAAAFE/AwV60AUwTvU/s640/DSC_0172.JPG

Clearly where you run the disc on the face of a pulley affects the reading so I'll have to think about that ...

I've cranked long enough yesterday and today to probably finish filling and bleeding the oil rail.
Might have to devise an attachment for an oil-gauge to check. Any suitable take-off points?

Is there any means of checking cam sensors?
Does the ECU need a minimum voltage at certain pins?

99.999% sure I timed it properly.

Would it ALL become clear if I found someone to attach tech2 whilst cranking - if it won't start.
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 0:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blasted uncorrectable typos. Such as 'rpom' instead of rpm.

Picture is of a similar tacho but that one reads 0-500 I see.
Mine has NO instructions inside lid ... must have been a leaflet which has long since gone.
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 0:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is an early one used for checking Merlin engines in Hurricanes and Napier Sabres in Typhoons.
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
eithan h
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 8195
Location: oxfordish

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 13:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes if you got a tech2 on it it will all be clear, as for the oil take off the proper kit goes on to where the high pressure pipe fits so you remove the pipe completely attach the gauge to the bottom joint and crank the engine
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 14:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might think about getting a spare standard oil pipe from scrappies as I know where there is one lying unbolted in a Trooper engine bay ... and drilling then braizing/welding a fitment on .

But 3.5-4 mpa seems to convert into 550-575 psi and I might struggle to find a conventional gauge that reads that high ... [my spare old-fashioned gauges usually top out at about 100psi.]
I'll have to think on that one.

Thanks - as always.
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Red Robbo
Lifetime member
Lifetime member


Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 4129
Location: Where ever I happen to be in my imagination but mainly Far East Sussex

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 15:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

02Trooper777 wrote:
Might think about getting a spare standard oil pipe from scrappies as I know where there is one lying unbolted in a Trooper engine bay ... and drilling then braizing/welding a fitment on .

But 3.5-4 mpa seems to convert into 550-575 psi and I might struggle to find a conventional gauge that reads that high ... [my spare old-fashioned gauges usually top out at about 100psi.]
I'll have to think on that one.

Thanks - as always.


Oil filled hydraulic test gauge.
_________________
Khotso...........
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 0:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a working Pickavant 0-1000psi hydraulic gauge on my bench press which is awaiting new hydraulic seals for the pump section(gauge is not fluid filled but would almost certainly suffice) -
but first I am going to remove the ROPCV again just to check I have not blundered when re-assembling it ...
If I have - I'll let you know.
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
eithan h
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 8195
Location: oxfordish

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 18:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

you need one that goes up to 3000psi for the high pressure side on cranking as after 15secs of cranking the ecu opens the control valve as it starts to panic as it hasn't seen oil pressure yet and if it suddenly gets it it will hit 3000psi instantly
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 0:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strewth !!

That IS worth knowing ... and saved me from ruining a good gauge - thanks.

BTW to all ... I removed the ROPCV today because of a seed of doubt ...

I bought a 'cheap' ["Foreign"] 1&1/8" AF socket and tried to drill holes to take a Bosch angle-grinder peg tool.
Brand new 'quality' drill would not make ANY headway even using a drill press and lubricant ... tried a special 'cobalt' drill - that just snapped.  
Gave up and thought about welding a handle onto the socket.

Decided instead to put two flats on the 'meaty end' using said Bosch angle-grinder.
Found a Bahco adjustable just a bit too big to give a swing.
Used an unbranded adjustable, set the handle at 90 degrees to the block - one tap with a brass drift and a lump hammer .... ROPCV was released and easily unscrewed.
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 14:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stripped ROPCV again and re-cleaned it.

(I had assembled it correctly before).
Still won't start though.

Two things though - I took the ECU off to give a fraction more viewing space (no real need) and found a thin black wire emerging from the thicker of the two convoluted- wrapped-bundles into the second plug. It ended in mid-air - and when I opened up the plug cover itself there were no 'vacant' pins or broken wires.
So what does it do ?

My new slight suspicion - when I was torquing the 8 injector clamp bolts/saddles I recall one pair of them 'clicked' the torque wrench without any final tightening.
Just maybe threads were binding before that injector was hard up against the new seal ?
This might well lead to the rail not attaining or holding full pressure.
I wish I knew someone in Shropshire with Tech2 ...

Might also just pull the white wire to see if I can fool it into at least starting !
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 0:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question about unconnected black wire remains - BUT -
I thought ( " ... dangerous" - I know) that I hadn't checked the brake light fuse ... (again as the engine seemed to have stopped just because of the serious issue of the cracked injector/melted piston etc.).

Went out in the dark and found neither the brake lights nor the tail lights were working ... (one number plate lamp, reversing lights, high intensity rears and indicators were all working normally).   Checked fuses and could not see one blown.
The re-read Red Robbo's comment from a while back - "The stop light circuit is also power for the ECU, glowplug light is controlled by the ECU hence what you are seeing ..."
 
Looks like I must/might have a problem with lighting circuit (but glowplugs/glowplug light appear to be functioning as per the book).

Will investigate with a meter in day light. Can hardly wait.
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 14:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blast !

Lights not apparently an issue. Found two dodgy bulbs and a poor earth. Easily fixed, all working - but not the engine.

Next :-  Thought I'd read from eithan that there should be 12V on the red wires at the second plug on the ECU.

Unplugged it, switched ignition on - and got zero on both red wires on the harness. Checked all the others and got 12V on two wires - Green/white stripe
and Black/yellow stripe.
Will have to study the wiring diagram?
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™ Forum Index -> Engines All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page : 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 1 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


All contents © Hobson's Choice IT Solutions Ltd 1997 on
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group