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Another 4JX1 no start .....

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02Trooper777
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Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 18:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

My neighbour [who is brilliant at soldering and electronics] has now replaced the DC to DC converter (as per saabcentral website) and siliconed the new board into place.

It appears to work insofar as it has cured the constant rebooting when trying to read cranking/live data.

It showed oil rail pressure stable at 4.0mpa after a 'blip' up to 6.0 - but Tech2 seemed to indicate 'desired' pressure was 6.0mpa.
Rang Old Mill to order a new genuine ORPS and spoke to eithan.

As always ... VERY helpful.
He reckoned 4.0 was fine and normal ("probably go up to 5.0 when actually running") and ORPS was probably OK.
I mentioned that 'white wire trick' had done nothing and he said "It generally does not do anything if ORPS is actually OK." VERY useful info.

"Check cranking speed is between 170-200 rpm."

"Next thing is to check the signals from the crank and cam sensors."

Will do.
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02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 18:52    Post subject: Google Ads keep this community free to join!


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02Trooper777
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 19:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOzXPUwslH0gJDdr8N7NZtnknk9fQFJXZjZcAh3.jpg[img]http://https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOzXPUwslH0gJDdr8N7NZtnknk9fQFJXZjZcAh3[/img]
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02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
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02Trooper777
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Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 19:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Google pic did not work ...
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02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
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eithan h
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Location: oxfordish

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 14:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

how did it get on?
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02Trooper777
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Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 23:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought testing method for crank and cam sensors might be on "Diagnostics" page on Tech2.

Not so.
Did notice cranking showed up to speed - then intermittently/randomly  flashed back to zero - then showed a reading again. Might be something amiss?

Much rain/thunder/lightning today - so [batteries on charge tonight] will double-check method on downloadable manual and have a go later on Monday - after Bank Holiday morning visit to local steam/vintage vehicle rally - usually to buy some decent engineering tools.

Found Gribble's old advice re tests by the way and saved it.

Fingers still crossed.
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02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

did it only read about 100rpm when it came back?
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

do i remember it right that you have done the flywheel on it?
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02Trooper777
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Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 16:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi eithan.

Just come if from more testing ...
Second query first.  I did put on the flywheel from original engine plus a new 3-part Excedy clutch.  99.9999% sure I put halfmoon at 6.00 when crank pulley was at TDC on No. 1.

Everything seems to be pointing now to an 'issue' with crank sensor [from first engine that 'died' with a melted piston/cracked injector].

Engine rpm on Tech2 on cranking was going as high [momentarily] as 220rpm. Then [despite audibly still cranking at same revs...] reading dropped to zero and then - came back rapidly as just a steadyish 45-50rpm!!!
MEANWHILE injectors show "disabled" most of the time BUT just occasionally flash to "enabled". This enabling seems to coincide with momentary high rpm readings as you might expect.
When 'enabled' for a moment the engine does not fire.
ORPS showing constant 4.0mpa.

Question is now >> do I risk using a s/h sensor from spare engine or buy a brand-new genuine Isuzu part ?
I think it is the latter as I want reliability ...
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02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 17:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

did you put the cam to tdc and double check the crank or did you just go off the cam being at tdc? because if you didn't double check the crank was at tdc and fitted the flywheel then you could be 180 degrees out
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02Trooper777
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Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 0:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm.
I'm pretty sure I put cam at TDC with No1 piston at TDC and crank pulley notch at TDC - then put on the flywheel with halfmoon at 6.00.
But it is a while ago before I even decided to buy a clone Tech2 etc.


But as you have raised doubts I'll now have to try and check.

IF I was 180 degrees out - would the ECU EVER 'enable' injectors, however briefly, and would Tech2 ever show a high rpm figure albeit fleetingly?
Can't quite get my head around that one.
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
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eithan h
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 19:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes and yes
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02Trooper777
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Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 0:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK   Thanks.
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02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
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View user's profile Send personal message
02Trooper777
****


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 0:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over on the other thread I mentioned the EML was flashing whilst cranking.

As per eithan's request I checked with ignition just switched on - and the EML is on steadily and constant as I believe it should be.

Couple of things though.
It has now logged a DTC. [Nothing before]

"P0118   Not present.
Coolant temp sensor high voltage"

Also - by the by -  was checking fuses in underbonnet box and noticed there was no diode E1. Does it matter?

Also - no relay fitted for Ceramic Heater - but there is fuse  in correct place for "Ceramic Heater".
Pardon my ignorance but do all 3.0TD Troopers come as standard with a ceramic heater fitted ? If so ... then it may have died or the relay was pinched/duff.
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02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
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View user's profile Send personal message
eithan h
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Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 8195
Location: oxfordish

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 19:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

not all have it, generally if it has twin batteries then it does have the ceramic heater, mine doesn't have it and originally only had one battery
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02Trooper777
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Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 0:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine appears to have had twin batteries from new and, given the fuse is in place, I had better look at the main heater box at some point and see if one is fitted.

[Relay may have been removed because heater or wiring to it was faulty - of course.]


I'm digressing - I must find out what is causing the no-start. Highest priority and well before Ceramic Heater issue.
The online manual is good but finding exactly what you want amongst so many pages is a task.
I've failed so far to find out much about the standard immobiliser.
_________________
02 3.0 Trooper
Saab 9-3 2.3i convertible.(to be sold)
BMW 540i/6   1939 HRG 1100
1986 Saab 900 Turbo. '84 Marlin Roadster.
+ motorcycles & '76 Reliant Kitten (don't laugh - it has got 4 wheels)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send personal message
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