Isuzu Trooper Owners Club UK™

mia · ** Joined: 28 Oct 2006 Posts: 113 Location: aylesbury

1999 Treg astra 1.6 8v.

Won't start. No spark what so ever. Evil or Very Mad

Replaced coil, fuel pump, fuel pump relay and crank sensor.
Had auto electrician test the vehicle, said it's the ECU. Sent ECU away for testing, sent back with no faults found.
Have got battery volts going to fuel pump relay, but relay is not closing for some reason. Battery volts going to coil pack, but still no spark. Battery volts going to single point injector but no fuel getting through.

Since the ECU has come back from test, the diagnostic tool is not recognising it.

Can anyone tell me if the ecu needs to be reset after being put back on car?

Or any other ideas would be much appreciated, as my solution of a full tin of easy start and a match didn't go down too well with the vehicles owner.
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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

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eithan h · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 0:23 Post subject:

sounds like it's immobilised itself and cutting the fuel and spark might be time for vauxhall diagnostics to look at the immobiliser side of things

Rhanagar · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:13 Post subject:

Are you getting an EML light? If you are is it on constantly or flashing. If it is flashing then its an immobaliser problem. Could be something as simple as the transponder in the key isn't being recognised by the system. Try the spare key if you have one. You can on some Mk.4 Astras read the fault codes manually yourself.

http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/showthread.php?t=164990

This will tell you how.
_________________
1990 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.I 2.8TD Manual Lotus Edition
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto Lotus Edition

Deceased
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto LS

mia · ** Joined: 28 Oct 2006 Posts: 113 Location: aylesbury

Thank you both for your replies.

No EML. May be a whole lot easier if the bloomin thing came on but it doesn't.

We're gonna be looking at the immobiliser next , but because we have battery voltage going to the coil, but only 0.4 coming out the the other side, (ECU side), everything is pointing to ECU. ECU was supposed to have been sent away for testing and come back as OK. Unless of course the guy supposedly sending it off is trying to pull a fast one. He's a friend of vehicles owner, but known as a bit of a wally in the motor trade, and personally I really wouldn't trust him to have sent it off at all. Especially as he's "lost" the test certificate that says ECU has no faults.

Am going to call the people who did the test to confirm this morning and go from there.

Does anybody know, or know of where I can find an ECU diagram, which will tell me how much voltage should be running between the ECU and the coil? And whether it runs from coil to ECU or ECU to coil. Haynes manual doesn't show which way it flows. Sad

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

Rhanagar · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:01 Post subject:

It should flash on when you turn the key to position 2. If it doesn't then the bulb has been taken out or has blown. I would personally pull the cluster out and replace the bulb if it doesn't turn on at all, then do the check I linked to.
_________________
1990 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.I 2.8TD Manual Lotus Edition
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto Lotus Edition

Deceased
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto LS

mia · ** Joined: 28 Oct 2006 Posts: 113 Location: aylesbury

Have had a look through the link you sent, but I don't know if will work in this case as engine will not run.

Quote:The Simtec 56.5 fuel systems use a 4 digit flash code. The engine ideally needs to be running when reading the fault codes, otherwise it may show incorrect fault codes.Quote:

Link to the vehicle involved and it's problems and what's been done etc. http://www.astraownersclub.com/vb/showthread.php?t=240847

Have confirmed that ECU has been tested, no test printout received as no fault found.

Maybe time to look at the immobiliser side of things.

Thanks for your help.
_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

Rhanagar · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 14:23 Post subject:

In a round about way that is true about doing it when running, but all you will get is a crank sensor error as the engine isn't turning. To be honest its worth doing anyway seeing as you have nothing to lose and to be honest your up against the wall. It might give you a heads up for the sake of 10 mins. If you turn the ignition on can you see the EML light on at all? It should flash on then off again after a couple of seconds.

My g/f has a Mk.4 Astra and I run the paperclip test all the time with the engine off, just the ignition on. Never failed me yet. (apart from the damn EGR valve causing the light to come on all the time grr).

My theory so far is immobaliser but I could be wrong.

Try posting on http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/forum.php

There may be someone near by who has an op-com system that will be able to read the fault codes for both the ECU and immobaliser. The ECU I doubt will have anything stored in it as it was disconnected from the battery for a while when it was sent away.
_________________
1990 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.I 2.8TD Manual Lotus Edition
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto Lotus Edition

Deceased
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto LS

mia · ** Joined: 28 Oct 2006 Posts: 113 Location: aylesbury

MEH!!! (bl**dy vauxhalls)

OK, will give it a go tomorrow see what happens.

Will also find out if immobiliser was tested by the auto electrician when he did ECU.
_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

Rhanagar · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 22:54 Post subject:

Sorry if I sounded a bit off putting. I just find it funny that everything seems to be fine yet its still not working. Shame you haven't got a spare key, as now I am more convinced its immobaliser. another thing you could try is to pop the fuel inlet off and see if it is pumping fuel when you try and crank it. That will eliminate fuelling issues. Double check that crank sensor again as they can stop the engine from starting if not working properly. Before you do the fault code test, turn the ignition to position 2 for a minute or so. This will give the ECU time to log any fault codes, and store them.
_________________
1990 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.I 2.8TD Manual Lotus Edition
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto Lotus Edition

Deceased
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto LS

Rhanagar · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 23:47 Post subject:

Another thing to check is the key. The actual key part pulls off from the body. On that key part should be the transponder. Its about 10mm long and 4mm wide in black. If that isn't there it will not start.
_________________
1990 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.I 2.8TD Manual Lotus Edition
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto Lotus Edition

Deceased
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto LS

Gribble · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 0:19 Post subject:

So has any of these 'techs put tech 2 on to see whats up ?
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mia · ** Joined: 28 Oct 2006 Posts: 113 Location: aylesbury

Gribble. I'm assuming, (maybe wrongly) that the auto electrician had the vehicle on the tech 2 right at the beginning. Because of his diagnostics, the crank sensor, fuel pump and fuel pump relay have been changed. He tested again and then decided that the ECU was at fault. This was tested on the ATP500 system and came back as ok.However it was only the ECU sent off and I was under the impression that he would have needed the key with it to decode and test properly. However, I know nothing about ECU testing so.........
I don't know if he checked the immobiliser side of things, have got owner of car phoning him today to find out.

Rhanager. Don't worry about sounding off putting, i've been trying to put people off of vauxhalls for years! lol
Have tried both keys for vehicle, but no joy with that.

Sent my other half out to have a looky at the car with his tester and we've managed to figure out that..........
everything in the car is live, we have battery voltage everywhere. Car is live. We are NOT getting a decent voltage coming back out of the coil pack to ECU. For some reason, the connector inside the fuel pump relay is not being pulled in. If you bypass the relay, you can see the fuel pumping through the pipes, even tried putting petrol straight into carb to start her but car not playing ball. Got the owner of the car to have a look at the EML to see if it flashes, (for imm prob), but she says it's coming on and then going off after about 2 seconds. No flashing lights, no spanner light, everything as normal on dashboard.
For some reason the ECU is not letting the bloody car spark, turns over fine, just will not catch.

Still say a gallon of petrol and a match would be her better option.
_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

mia · ** Joined: 28 Oct 2006 Posts: 113 Location: aylesbury

Oooh, it's also had new coil, but that didn't help either. Sad

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

Rhanagar · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 19:10 Post subject:

Lol .. I have had Vauxhals for years now ... I know they have their faults but I know more about them than other cars, and to be honest all makes have their issues.

Anyway. Have you tried the old coil pack again, also it might pay you to replace the fuel relay. I might have a spare in the garage you can have if you can get me the part number off the top of yours to double check.
_________________
1990 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.I 2.8TD Manual Lotus Edition
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto Lotus Edition

Deceased
1994 Isuzu Bighorn LWB Mk.II 3.1TD Auto LS

mia · ** Joined: 28 Oct 2006 Posts: 113 Location: aylesbury

I worked for a Vauxhall dealership for a few years and that put me off them for life! lol Very Happy

I'm an Old Ford fan myself. Got my 20 year old sierra thats never let me down and i'm sticking to her. (and the isnoozu of course, can't get 4 kids and the dog in the ford).

The coil pack on astra now IS the original. Tried a new one and it didn't work so we stuck the old one back on. We also tried another fuel relay but again there's something was stopping it from pulling the switch closed. You can manually close the relay which then puts fuel up to carb but the injectors not working and no spark.
_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.